I personally think he does not deserve to play another down in the NFL...I don't care if he has paid his "debt" to society, playing in the NFL is a privilege not a right! Besides that he really has not served an NFL suspension yet..the reason he hasn't played in 2 years is due to him being incarcerated. So he basically only got a 5 game suspension for committing to felonies...

Question:
What do you think of the ruling on Mike Vick?

Choices:
It was fair?
It was excessive?
He should never be able to play another down in the NFL?
I Just don't care?

 

let the man go and enjoy his freedom, he served his time in prison he should be free to do whatever he wants now. If he goofs up again then hes done.

people should just let him be, sadly I think most people wont be happy until the mans dead...over dog fighting.

quote:

Originally posted by BrownsFan1988:
let the man go and enjoy his freedom, he served his time in prison he should be free to do whatever he wants now. If he goofs up again then hes done.

people should just let him be, sadly I think most people wont be happy until the mans dead...over dog fighting.

Your right he should be able to enjoy his freedom..but saying he should be free to do whatever he wants is wrong...there are plenty of things a convicted Felon cannot do (most states you cant even vote)... An employer has the right to turn you down for a job if you have a felony on your record (including gov't jobs)...so in no way shape or form is it his right or owed to him that he plays again in the NFL...the commissioner did him a favor only suspending him for 5 or so games. If I was the commissioner anybody convicted of a felony that is associated with the NFL would be banned for life.

quote:

Originally posted by brownsfn19:
Your right he should be able to enjoy his freedom..but saying he should be free to do whatever he wants is wrong...there are plenty of things a convicted Felon cannot do (most states you cant even vote)... An employer has the right to turn you down for a job if you have a felony on your record (including gov't jobs)...so in no way shape or form is it his right or owed to him that he plays again in the NFL...the commissioner did him a favor only suspending him for 5 or so games. If I was the commissioner anybody convicted of a felony that is associated with the NFL would be banned for life.

glad your not the commisioner then, I guess we all just have different opinions. People make mistakes, I dont think its fair to hold someone down for there whole lives over some dumb decisions. I could see if he was convicted of it 2 different times or somthing but not now.

Theres only a few things that should ban you for life on your first offense, killing another person (purposely), rape, stuff like that. Harming a animal isnt THAT severe for me, I love animals and everything own pets myself but I couldnt see banning someone for life over dog fighting at least not on your first offense.

Couldn't care less of what happens to Vicks 'blown' opportunity with the NFL or what the commissioner decides. Vick can always use that diploma (if he recieved one) to carry on with his life.

i think it was fair and i think he should get a chance to play again if he's able.

As far as hurting animals, I think there is a difference between an incident that hurt or killed an animal and the process of torture, violence, and death that is dog fighting.

Then what do you think should happen to Stallworth ? He got a month in prison for DUI manslaughter and Vick got 2 1/2 years for dog fighting. I don't like what Vick did but he went to jail and did his time. He is free to earn a living. The owners can choose not to sign him but they can also choose to give him a chance. If the Browns sign him would you stop being a fan ? Many in the NFl have "rap" sheets so which of them should be out ? What offenses are ok ?

quote:

Originally posted by Tatd Browns FReAk:
Then what do you think should happen to Stallworth ? He got a month in prison for DUI manslaughter and Vick got 2 1/2 years for dog fighting. I don't like what Vick did but he went to jail and did his time. He is free to earn a living. The owners can choose not to sign him but they can also choose to give him a chance. If the Browns sign him would you stop being a fan ? Many in the NFl have "rap" sheets so which of them should be out ? What offenses are ok ?

I just think that its rediculous someone can be speeding, run someone over, in the meen time there drunk and have a illegal drug in there blood stream and only get 28 days in jail for the whole thing. The worst thing Stallworth got out of the whole thing was losing his license for life (that would traumatize me ). But someone holds some dog fighting and they get 2 years, a few more years of probation, and have to become a walking talking example for the rest of his life talking to kids in poor neighborhoods about the consequences of dog fighting.

quote:

Originally posted by Tatd Browns FReAk:
Then what do you think should happen to Stallworth ? He got a month in prison for DUI manslaughter and Vick got 2 1/2 years for dog fighting. I don't like what Vick did but he went to jail and did his time. He is free to earn a living. The owners can choose not to sign him but they can also choose to give him a chance. If the Browns sign him would you stop being a fan ? Many in the NFl have "rap" sheets so which of them should be out ? What offenses are ok ?

Yes he does have a right to make a living now, but on the other hand any future employer has the right to turn him down for that job because he is a convicted felon, including the NFL.
I personally think that anybody that is convicted of a felony should be banned from the NFL for life...thats including our own Jamal Lewis and Dante Stallworth...there are others like Lenoard Little also that shouldn't be in the league...it is a privilege to play in the NFL not a right

As long as you buy tickets & merchandise you are supporting a league full of felons. So pick your poison pal.

quote:

Originally posted by BrownsFan1988:

I just think that its rediculous someone can be speeding, run someone over, in the meen time there drunk and have a illegal drug in there blood stream and only get 28 days in jail for the whole thing. The worst thing Stallworth got out of the whole thing was losing his license for life (that would traumatize me ).

You act as if Donte planned to get drunk and then proceed to pick out a victim and then proceed to heartlessly run him down and kill him intentionally. You don't know all the facts involved in the case, but odds are it was an accident. The drinking part was stupid but having someone doing something just as stupid by not using the crosswalk aided in the cause of the accident.

quote:

Originally posted by BrownsFan1988:

But someone holds some dog fighting and they get 2 years, a few more years of probation, and have to become a walking talking example for the rest of his life talking to kids in poor neighborhoods about the consequences of dog fighting.

What are the odds during these loving DOG FIGHTS TO THE DEATH there were illegal drugs and alcohol? Were these accidental fights to the death or premeditated brutal fights to the death? Did they brutally kill the dogs that were no longer able to fight any longer by electrocution or drowning?


Think about it!

Look more towards the cause than the result.

quote:

Originally posted by BrownsFan1988:
people should just let him be, sadly I think most people wont be happy until the mans dead...over dog fighting.

It wouldn't bother me in the least if someone split his skull open with a baseball bat.

quote:

Originally posted by craig19:

It wouldn't bother me in the least if someone split his skull open with a baseball bat.

I could say that about alot of people.

quote:

Originally posted by Vambo:
Did they brutally kill the dogs that were no longer able to fight any longer by electrocution or drowning?


Think about it!

suppose he slowly poisoned them, caught the dogs, put so much weight on them that they were literally crushed to death, swung and hit them so hard that they flew across a room, then walked over to finish the job.

Sound awful? well that's what most of us do every day to spiders, flys, and mosquitos. You're going to tell me they don't feel pain?

Vick isn't guilty of cruelty to animals, he's guilty of cruelty to CUTE animals.

Meanwhile, Sarah Palin promotes aerial wolf hunting and Vick is the bad guy that gets dumped on? This country is involved in a very dangerous game of moral relativism. and I actually feel bad for the guy.

quote:

Originally posted by NTSC_Dawg:
suppose he slowly poisoned them, caught the dogs, put so much weight on them that they were literally crushed to death, swung and hit them so hard that they flew across a room, then walked over to finish the job.

Sound awful? well that's what most of us do every day to spiders, flys, and mosquitos. You're going to tell me they don't feel pain?

Vick isn't guilty of cruelty to animals, he's guilty of cruelty to CUTE animals.

Meanwhile, Sarah Palin promotes aerial wolf hunting and Vick is the bad guy that gets dumped on? This country is involved in a very dangerous game of moral relativism. and I actually feel bad for the guy.

good point. What about other forms of hunting. Deer, Bears, Elk etc. that list is huge for as many animals are hunted. People raise deer and other animals then call up the buddys when they are old enough and free them into a fenced in wooded area and hunt until they find the creatures and blast them with rifles/shotguns. How about fishing, you hook a fish into there mouths and rip apart there skin in side then drag them out of the water and cut them open with a knife alive.

Im not against hunting or fishing by the way and im actually for it (used to go hunting myself with my dad), just making a point. Some animals its ok but for others it isnt. Only dogs and cats feel pain I guess.

Yes I know theres a difference between eating what you kill and what you kill out of cruelty. I live out in the country and theres people out here who shoot dogs and cats for walking onto there property, they dont care if they have tags around there necks or not. Same with Racoons, and other creatures.

quote:

Originally posted by NTSC_Dawg:


Sound awful? well that's what most of us do every day to spiders, flys, and mosquitos. You're going to tell me they don't feel pain?

You you are saying people are sport fighting these creatures and betting on which will be alive at the end?

People breed and train spiders, flys, and mosquitos to fight to the death?

Yes I see how you can make that comparison to Dog Fighting operation and swatting spiders, flys, and mosquitos that may have bitten you.

My point was more toward the cause the difference between what Vick did and what Stallworth did, one was intentional brutality and the other was an accident brought about by stupidity. I wasn't making a judgement on the person but the act itself.

Sure there are worse thing going on then what Vick did but it was being compared to what Stallworth did not what Sarah Palin promotes( does she play in the NFL?).

quote:

Originally posted by BrownsFan1988:

good point. What about other forms of hunting. Deer, Bears, Elk etc. that list is huge for as many animals are hunted.

Now you are going off topic, the point was being made between Vick and Stallworth.

Let's address one issue at a time.

quote:

Originally posted by BrownsFan1988:

I just think that its rediculous someone can be speeding, run someone over, in the meen time there drunk and have a illegal drug in there blood stream and only get 28 days in jail for the whole thing. The worst thing Stallworth got out of the whole thing was losing his license for life (that would traumatize me ). But someone holds some dog fighting and they get 2 years, a few more years of probation, and have to become a walking talking example for the rest of his life talking to kids in poor neighborhoods about the consequences of dog fighting.

quote:

Originally posted by Vambo:
Yes I see how you can make that comparison to Dog Fighting operation and swatting spiders, flys, and mosquitos that may have bitten you

remember that phrase I used, Moral Relativism? It's ok to kill if the animal annoys you (mosquitos biting). Surely those people are annoyed by the strays, and via your logic have every right to kill.

quote:

I live out in the country and theres people out here who shoot dogs and cats for walking onto there property

I just hate the logic that it's ok to kill sometimes and not other times. I believe that there are humans on one level, and everything else (from dogs to Flies) are on another level. If you think you can kill a fly, then you should not care when a Dog is killed. Likewise, if you think Vick should rot in hell for killing Dogs, then you should sentence yourself to the same fate for squishing a spider.

LETS ALL JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE!

quote:

Originally posted by NTSC_Dawg:

Likewise, if you think Vick should rot in hell for killing Dogs, then you should sentence yourself to the same fate for squishing a spider.

How do you breed and train those spiders to brutally kill EACH OTHER?

Do you have special property set aside to breed train and then pit them against each other, not swat them but make them fight each other to the death.

He didn't kill the dogs because the dogs did something wrong, he took pleasure and made money by forcing dogs to kill EACH OTHER in a barbaric fight to the death.


That is your difference he took PLEASURE in the dogs killing EACH OTHER the dog did nothing to provoke him but be born...it's truely sad you cannot see the difference in that and killing a bug that bit you.

quote:

Originally posted by Vambo:
That is your difference he took PLEASURE in the dogs killing EACH OTHER the dog did nothing to provoke him but be born...it's truely sad you cannot see the difference in that and killing a bug that bit you.

Maybe the dog bit him? LOL.

quote:

Originally posted by Vambo:

How do you breed and train those spiders to brutally kill EACH OTHER?

Ok, I'll try one more time...I highly dispute the concept that it is ok to kill an animal sometimes and not others.

The intent of the deed has ZERO bearing on what the end result is.

A dead animal is a dead animal is a dead animal.

When people kill spiders they are glad that they are gone, so I say, lock up everyone for taking joy in killing another living, breathing creature.

quote:

Originally posted by NTSC_Dawg:

quote:

Originally posted by Vambo:

How do you breed and train those spiders to brutally kill EACH OTHER?

Ok, I'll try one more time...I highly dispute the concept that it is ok to kill an animal sometimes and not others.

Once again Vick did NOT KILL the dogs he forced the dogs to KILL EACH other!


The intent of the deed has ZERO bearing on what the end result is.

One intent is to kill a bug that bit you or tried to suck your blood, the other is to BREED an animal to KILL ANOTHER of it's own KIND in a BRUTAL FIGHT TO THE DEATH! It's not a simple SWAT the DOG is dead, the DOG has to KILL the other DOG, not because the other dog did anything but for the PLEASURE of Vick and his buddies. So the DEED has all the impact on the result, one is a quick swat your dead the other is a brutal fight that could go on for hours prolonging the agony of both DOGS.



A dead animal is a dead animal is a dead animal.

It's not the DEAD animal as much as it is how it was brutally tortured and killed. The dogs suffer long periods of time before death, the bug dies instantly...NO DIFFERENCE you say?


When people kill spiders they are glad that they are gone, so I say, lock up everyone for taking joy in killing another living, breathing creature.


There is a major difference in being glad a spider that bit you is gone and finding PLEASURE in WATCHING two DOGS MAUL each other to DEATH in a fight for no other reason but Vick's PLEASURE.

Would you rather instantly be killed or while others were drinking betting and laughing, be forced to fight another human to beat them to death or they beat you to your death?

If you should kill that other person you would to have to fight for your life again maybe later that day or the next day until you die or could no longer fight and your owner would as you said 9 posts up..."suppose he slowly poisoned them, caught the dogs, put so much weight on them that they were literally crushed to death, swung and hit them so hard that they flew across a room, then walked over to finish the job."


So you really don't think the manor in which you die matters?

You would not mind being brutally tortured a day, weeks or months before being killed as compared to instantly?

The only way Vick should see a game is in the stands.

Vick should be able to resume his career.

Whats the point in serving your time if you are going to get out and still fane punishment?

Doesn't the idea of serving your jail time suggest that afterward you have served your time and you are able to move on with your life?

And if you can still run and play QB at an NFL level, then by god you should DO IT.

The Bronws should have taken Vick....at least we would have a QB. And at most, we would have one of the most explosive QB's in the league.

Stallworth's situation is stupid too. The guy was Jaywalking and got hit. Stallworth hit him b/c he was driving recklessly; and whose to say one, two, or ten drinks would have changed that?

IMO it wouldn't have even been criminal had Dante not been drinking. But b/c he had a few Daquiari's it all could have been different...Baloney.

Drunk driving laws in this country are bogus. Whose to say that you would've killed someone driving that way---and at the same time, how can you say that you wouldn;t get into that accident if you were sober. It's a bunch of "if's and but's" that ruin lives and make thousands of dollars for police departments nationwide.

MADD is a joke.

www.getmadd.com

Tyler that link tried to install a trojan.

JS:ScriptIP-inf [Trj]

Really??

That's weird.

I found that site a couple years ago and thought it was pretty sound ideologically. Didn't realize it was malicious. If it's the site then refs please delete it.

I hate the way drinking and then driving is portrayed.

Like I said in my earlier post. Having a few beers isn't going to make you get into an accident. And if you get into an accident, you can't say with certainty that if you hadn't had any beers that you wouldnt be in that accident.

IMO, its just something that people scapegoat.

This is the only thing I could really find to verify it.

http://www.unmaskparasites.com...page=www.getmadd.com

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler_Durden:

Drunk driving laws in this country are bogus.

MADD is a joke.

Care to elaborate? Almost every individual in that organization has lost loved ones due to someones neglect/poor judgement to drink and drive. It's one of their only outlet's to voice their opinion and outrage.

As for "Drunk driving laws in this country are bogus", have you ever been through the judicial system where a loved one has been lost because of someones negligence to drink and drive? The tables are turned as to who the victim is.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler_Durden:
I hate the way drinking and then driving is portrayed.

Having a few beers isn't going to make you get into an accident.

I'll admit I'm guilty of driving drunk several times in the past. Hopefully, never again. There are so many alternatives. Cabs, public transportation, walking, staying at home, utilizing a defensive driver.

Unfortunately, the bar crowd doesn't "portray" the alternatives as nicely as jeapordizing the lives of innocent people.

To quote a friend of mine, who is in prison right now: "serving ten years is not as bad as looking at someone else's brain spread out on an interstate."