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brownschat.clevelandbrowns.com Forums Main Index General Discussion What does it mean if Obama is the anti-christ.|
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yep...just like Bush huh? More of the same. doh! Yet Obama has a record of voting stictly down the democratic lines. A vote for Obama is a vote for no checks and balances. We had that for 6 years with the republicans and it did not work out so good. Why would we want to do it again. Anyone voting for Obama should vote for a republican to get a house or senate seat. |
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I guess it is a matter of opinion. All the things you highlight as cancellation of your vote would earn mine. You can't please everyone can you? So you have to error on the side of liberty. No one will ever force anyone to have an abortion. But no matter the legality, women will have them. Passing a law forbidding it would only drive it underground and make it unsafe. We need to take preventive measures... if less people were in a situation where an abortion was an option... wouldn't that be better for everyone? ...and wether you like it or not, you and I and every other tax payer pay for lots of ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY things with those dollars. There is a thought in this country that taxes are bad and are unnecessary. Do you like roads? Running water? Having airlines? Electricity? A military? Tax dollars subsidize all of those things. And you are already paying for all the uninsured that receive medical treatment. Most hospitals are owned by corporations... managed health services... and when anyone cannot pay, the cost is passed along to those of us who DO pay for health insurance in the form of higher costs and higher premiums. Gay marriage, abortion, things like this are red-herring issues meant to stir the conservative base. No supreme court justice worth his or her robe would rule on them. They are right to privacy and individual right cases. Throughout history the supreme court has always ruled against discrimination... I find it hard to believe that even the most conservative court would vote to constitutionally discriminate against a group of people based on an orientation. These are things that should be individual choices... and it's ironic that it's the conservative base that is clammoring for government intervention when their mantra for years was to "get government out of our lives". You can't have it both ways. It's WANTING it both ways that has landed us in the financial mess we face right now. Increase military spending a trillion dollars, give a big tax refund... and all of a sudden the national debt jumps 100% in 5 years. The real problem is that "liberals" have allowed themselves to be brandes... like being liberal is a bad thing. I'm a LIBERAL. I am proud of it. Why shouldn't I be? Because Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity say so? As a liberal, I believe in foreward thinking. A Progressive agenda that will provide for the poor, and help them not BE poor anymore (a very Christian ideal, I think). Liberals aren't bad. We're not socialist. We're not communist. No one is advocating a government take over of the free trade markets... My original point for beginning this whole tirade is that Obama is being painted as the ANTICHRIST!!! Isn't that HARSH? He's called a terrorist. His patriotism is questioned... McCain has had equally shady associations (look up American Anti-Communist League). No one is all over him. You can't say that there is a bit of fear over a presidential front runner, who is black, and named Barack Hussien Obama. What is John McCain's middle name? If I'd have said four years ago that a black guy who's middle name is Hussein was going to be nominated, and a week before the election was poised to win the presidency of the United States... would you have believed me? That is all I was saying. Jeez... I don't even know what I was originally talking about! Sorry for the rant. |
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I agree that what I want others may not and vice versa. I had made the statement that just because I am voting for McCain does not mean I am racist or that it is because I don't want a black man in office. I have legitimate problems with the Democratic platform and Obama's stances on issues (that to me are not red herrings) as you put it.
Your post I beleive is in response to me pointing out to another poster that Obama wants our tax dollars to pay for abortions. He did not think that was the case and I pointed it out in his platform. Now I am all for paying necessary taxes. I have no problems with paying for roads, police, fire fighters, etc. I, not everyone, along with many others have a problem with abortion. Rather you agree or not is not the point. I see abortion as murder. I beleive the baby is a baby no matter what a liberal scientist may say. I think early term abortions, late term abortions, partial birth abortions, and infantacide (where a baby is born alive and left to die) is murder. Obama is for all forms of these abortions and opposed doctors interfering when an aborted baby survives the abortion. He is against the doctors giving this baby that is clinging to his or her life outside and apart from the mother medical treatment. He calles it an uneccesary burden on the mother. Many people agree with me and many people disagree. It is a real and major part of this election not a red herring. President Bush signed several bills that protect babies that have survived abortion. Obama voted no on a similar bill in Illinois. But to make things worse, Obama not only wants abortion to be legal but he wants me to pay for this act that I am an absolute conscientious and moral objector to. He wants to force me to fund what I see as murder. That is not the same as roads and I can not beleive you made such a comparison. In summary, I am against abortion and I know others are for it. However I do not see how the pro abortion people can justify taking it to the next level and making me pay for it. |
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I HIGHLY DOUBT ANYONE IS PRO-ABORTION! Yes I meant for that to be in all caps. It's called Pro-Choice man. I hate abortion, and happen to think it's murder as well. If you don't want the baby, put it up for adoption because there's a lot of families out there who want to have kids, but are unable to. However, it is never that cut and dry. There HAS to be acceptions (usage?) for rape and when the health of the mother is jeopardized. I would never be for abortions, but I am pro-choice. It's different and the reason why you can't see that is because you're conservative. It's ok, that's just how your mind works.  Oh and I also doubt that Obama is for infantacide. Again this is just more of the ignorance being spewed out by the Republican party. ---------------------------------------- Annnnndddddd Punt! |
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I was just letting you know that McCains new abortion stance that you are high on as a decider was opposite of his 2000 stance and he was either strongly against the overturn in 2000, or he is strongly for overturning now.
He was giving lip service then or now, and you may want to check into it and figure it out for yourself which it is. People usually do not change their mind on something that they feel 'strongly' about. I honestly, not to screw with you, think he is giving lip service in 2008, and the 2000 stance is what he believes...Which makes me like him more personally, but I could be wrong. I have said many times, I do not agree with all that is Obama, but I do not like the war monger talk of the 2008 McCain. If McCain had given more leeway to diplomacy being possible, and not chosen Palin, he may of got my vote. Despite the conspiracy theories, I have never voted Dem for president. I missed the 2004 vote, but sadly to say, I probably would of voted for Bush...My bad. I still think Bush is a decent guy, I think Cheney/Rumsfeld and them were able to influence him a bit too much and he did what he felt was right due to them...So I guess I think hes a gullible/well meaning person...A lot of people may not agree. |
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I agree, however the house seat up for election here the republican incumbent is an idiot. All attacks and not a single comercial about what he wants to do. So I can't do that. ------------------------------ We are NOT better without K2! |
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What I meant by red-herring is that it is an issue that is unlikely to be deeply addressed by the supreme court EVER. The public is split just about 50/50 on the matter, and a court case involving an abortion stoppage is unlikely to ever reach the supreme court... remember the Supreme Court cannot just decide... "Hey! Let's re-examine the decision that allows abortions to take place!" A case would have to begin at a circut court where one party is sueing another to prevent an abortion from happening. It would then have to remain unsettled through the circut, district courts, state supreme court, then finally get to the supreme court. Average time to have a case before the supreme court is about two years. Human gestation is 36 weeks.
Again, the reason Roe v. Wade was ruled on was that the woman felt that there was a privacy violation that placed her in jeopardy. THAT is what the decision was based on. To even GET an abortion case to the supreme court is unlikely, let alone finding a constutional merit to stop it. THAT is why it is a red-herring issue posed ever election to stir up passion among the conservative base. There has never been a more anti-abortion president than Bush. Yet, despite all the campaign pandering... was the issue EVER approached by the administration outside of campaign speeches? Nope. Was a bill ever drafted? Nope. Could a constitutional amendment possibly be passed through the House, Senate, and pass a 2/3 ratification vote by the public? Not likely. So if you are TRULY against abortion... go grassroots. Educate teens about safe sex. Educate women about their options that include life. So many conservatives get so wrapped up in being ANTI-abortion that they often forget to be PRO-life. Life doesn't end at birth. ...and in the cases where Sen. Obama speaks about "late term abortions", where they put the health of the mother in danger, how do you choose one life over another? Why should the unborn life hold more value than the mother who is carrying it? YOU shouldn't make that choice, neither should the government. It is an INDIVIDUAL decision, and should never leave the hospital. THAT is what Roe v. Wade says. No one is PRO-abortion. But there are circumstances, terrible terrible circumstances that require a terrible choice. You can't just take it away. |
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There are three Supreme court justices that will be up for appointment over the next 4 years. Obama has clearly stated that he will not concider anyone who would be in favor of overturning the Roe Vs. Wade. I am sure those who are pro choice like this and pro lifers are against it. So yes, if the right judges are appointed it could change it. It is not a red herring.
I understand that there are cases that a baby has to be taken to save the mother. There is a major difference between taking a baby to save the life of the mother and choosing to abort an inconvenient pregnancy. You can legislate against the one without legislating against the other. It can be kept private as well. Just trust the Doctors to obey the rules. Some won't but that will be on them. At least there would not be clinics that perform the quicky abortions that do exist and I would not have to fund abortions. I nor anyone can keep people from breaking the law but that does not mean the law should not exist. Simply allow life saving measures that may in a last resort result in an abortion. But make all other forms of abortion illegal. Even when a baby needs to be taken for the sake of the mother...every opportunity to save that baby once removed should be done. Bush did make it illegal for a doctor not to give life saving measures to an infant that survived its botched abortion. Obama voted against legislation to do the same in Illinois before the federal measure was accomplished. That tells me a little bit about the mans values. |
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Rev, you and I agree some here... Abortion as birth control is a terrible practice... and should be discouraged harshly. (it shouldn't be easier to buy a car than get an abortion)
BUT- I'm talking about understanding what Roe v. Wade really said. It is not about Abortion. Overturing the actual court case has little to do with Abortion as a procedure. The point I was making about it being a campaign ploy with little potential traction is in the way that the legislative system works. It's pretty hard to get a case TO the supreme court... so even if you have 9 judges committed to aboloshing abortion rights, there is only a small chance that they will ever get to rule on a case that has made it that far. Juris prudence stituates that justices can't go out and cherry pick an issue to rule on. The case has to make it through the court system and GET to the supreme court without being settled... and in this case... things have pretty much worked themselves out one way or another. It will be hard to even have a case heared. Being that it's such a hot-potato issue... I don't see them eager to be on the bench for an abortion case either! The Illinois legislation that Obama voted against was only to include a stipulation for protecting the mother. And he didn't vote against it, he voted present. I'd put Obama's values up against McCain's any day. Obama is honest about how he feels... McCain has flip-flopped on this very issue THIS YEAR. He's always been pro-choice... until he realized he needed to be pro-life to win the Republican nomination. He ditched his first wife after a disfiguring accident... after she stayed with him for 7 years of captivity... Keating 5... Those are some core values. |
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Yea, but McCain's not a commie, socialist, terrorist loving, baby killer. When will Obama come out and deny all these accusations? And when will McCain deny he eats kittens for breakfast? |
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Obama, the anti-Christ? That's ridiculous. Everyone knows the anti-Christ is Art Modell.
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Nah, he's not the anti-christ. Just a socialist that loves his terrorist buddies like Ayers and Ayers wife. But hey, he'll be the one that brings back conservatism so go get'em Barry. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dawg57, |
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How's that Kool-Aid taste? Wanna buy a bridge? |
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Kool-Aid? Are you saying he doesn't have ties to them? I'd say your the one who knows how it tastes better than I. If you own a bridge you may want to hang on to it. You can sell tickets to those that voted for this boob as a springboard. |
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Most of what is believed about the "End of Days", the "Antichrist", etc...is based on speculation over centuries and influenced by very "non-biblical" elements. These are the only actual Bible verses that discuss the "antichrist":
1 John 2:18-[Warning Against Antichrists] Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 1 John 2:22-Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 4:3-but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. 2 John 1:7-Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. |
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Agreed. If we could conclusively state that a foetus is alive in the same sense that a baby is alive, it might be a different issue. As it stands, we cannot say that so it comes down to who has a greater right to your body - the gov't or the individual. The constitution leans towards giving rights to the individual... something some disagree with... Overall though, if you want to make it unconsitutional and you want to do it the way the founders intended, then don't stack the court. Pass an amendment already! *sheesh* As for Obama being the anti-christ... I agree with those who say ultimately it'd be a good thing. After all, won't evil finally be defeated and you will get to go to heaven?  Or are you having some doubts?And this Obama is atsocialist, he's a muslim, he's a follower of a black Christian radical preacher... C'mon people! Pick your boogeyman and stick with it! All this flipflopping is making me sick to my stomach. |
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