quote:

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom:
I don't like affirmative action, but I understand why we have it.

Come on, man! I waited all this time for that!?!?! You're holdin' out on me.

Snowdawg,
Okay brotha I will go a little deeper. Hey, I just remembered you attacking that guy for calling Crennel the "N" word some time ago, thanks. I wanted to say something so bad, but I was suspended. I agree the whole premise behind Affirmative Action is to ensure equality. The unintended consequence is discrimination. As a black man I detest discrimination in any form. I think we have to be honest with each other. Racism exists. There will be people who will not hire someone regardless of their qualifications. I've been to places to where there were no people of color working there at all. The way they got around the law was to hire white women. How do I know this? My best friends mom worked there and said it herself. What is the solution? I'm sure their is a few, but here's mine: Lets start with being AmericanS First. I'm not from Africa, I'm from Painesville, Ohio. National pride must be the focus. I don't need anyone to tell me what I am. I do own a mirror. There are too many divisions in this country. I think the fastest way to heal this wound is to be open about it. Respect others liberty. I don't care if you don't like me cause I'm black. It is your right to dislike me. I think the problem some people of color make is they assume they are being discriminated against, simply because they can. I also think the problem is whites allot of times when accused of being racist, waste time entertaining the notion, I've heard responses such as, "My best friend is black"-"My nieces and nephews are half black". Don't even feed into it. The moment you feed into it, you're done. I don't want people to look at me and think I was hired because I'm black. I'm very good at what I do. I don't like it, but I understand. But on a lighter note I plan on opening up a "classy" gentleman's club someday and all the ladies will have to have huge chests to even be consider being hired. So as I was reading all the posts I realized the law had to be rescinded before I opened the club, or risk being sued by women who didn't have big chests. Dang, I guess a man has to do what a man has to do. . . .END AFFIRMATIVE ACTION NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Against

20 years ago I'd probably be for it, but when a black guy is up in the pols I think it's hard to say the man is keepin a brotha down anymore.

Every American now has a good chance if he or she is capable of attending college or opening some sort of business to improve their stature in life. There is no need for this anymore. How can we claim to be an equal nation when there are laws on the books favoring one group of people over another. We are all suppose to believe that racism is cultural and mostly weeded out of our society, yet we assume and back by law the view that people are inherently racist and will choose their own color over the very best performance in their field.

No, it is time to restore equal opportunity by having the law actually view them as equal.

Vic, When you open your club, Id like to be a VIP member. I dont care what color the huge chests are, I will tip them all equally.

quote:

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom:
Snowdawg,
Okay brotha I will go a little deeper. Hey, I just remembered you attacking that guy for calling Crennel the "N" word some time ago, thanks. I wanted to say something so bad, but I was suspended. I agree the whole premise behind Affirmative Action is to ensure equality. The unintended consequence is discrimination. As a black man I detest discrimination in any form. I think we have to be honest with each other. Racism exists. There will be people who will not hire someone regardless of their qualifications. I've been to places to where there were no people of color working there at all. The way they got around the law was to hire white women. How do I know this? My best friends mom worked there and said it herself. What is the solution? I'm sure their is a few, but here's mine: Lets start with being AmericanS First. I'm not from Africa, I'm from Painesville, Ohio. National pride must be the focus. I don't need anyone to tell me what I am. I do own a mirror. There are too many divisions in this country. I think the fastest way to heal this wound is to be open about it. Respect others liberty. I don't care if you don't like me cause I'm black. It is your right to dislike me. I think the problem some people of color make is they assume they are being discriminated against, simply because they can. I also think the problem is whites allot of times when accused of being racist, waste time entertaining the notion, I've heard responses such as, "My best friend is black"-"My nieces and nephews are half black". Don't even feed into it. The moment you feed into it, you're done. I don't want people to look at me and think I was hired because I'm black. I'm very good at what I do. I don't like it, but I understand. But on a lighter note I plan on opening up a "classy" gentleman's club someday and all the ladies will have to have huge chests to even be consider being hired. So as I was reading all the posts I realized the law had to be rescinded before I opened the club, or risk being sued by women who didn't have big chests. Dang, I guess a man has to do what a man has to do. . . .END AFFIRMATIVE ACTION NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See, now THAT'S what I was waiting for. Well said.

I agree with the African-American thing myself, I agree with what you said. I see people trying to be Irish-American, Italian-American, etc...Its a divide and silly imo.

I think if you were not born here, then yeah you can say i'm originally from xxxxxx, if you are born here, then you are American imo.

Illegal people, you have another discussion and a sticky situation....Thats for another discussion.


I personally think things have gotten a lot better. The generation of people that are 50+ are generally more racist than the people that are 30ish imo. Those people grew up in a time where you saw segregation and their parents on a whole were a lot more racist than even they were on a whole imo.

I think as generations go, it lessens, its not gone, and I doubt it ever will be. I would not be against a study to see if the policies need changed...but I think when it was enacted it did have a place. Maybe its time is nearing a end, and I hope personally that could be and is the case.


Nothing is ever perfect, and some places are very different than others. When I joined the Army, my roommate when I got to Germany was from W. Virgina and he told me in the Army was the first time he had ever seen a black person in real life, other than on TV...That was pretty shocking to me. So I am sure in places like that, they are behind the times somewhat, but he even became friends with a lot of the black and hispanic guys quickly dispite this.


So I support a study into it, and I think that if the time to end it is not now, it will be within 10-15 years at the most imo. That will give time for a next generation to move into more positions of power at companies, a more accepting generation than even the previous imo.


Before anyone says it, no I don't think all people that are 50-60 are racist, but if people answered a poll HONESTLY, I would be willing to put a good amount of money on it being higher than the people that are 30-40, and they higher than people 15-29...I fit in the 30-40.

Racial preferences are wrong, no matter how well intentioned. If you're a football coach who happens to be black, how does it make you feel that you are now a possible candidate for a head coaching position because of your skin color rather than your abilities. It's demeaning and demoralizing. You're being told that you are not good enough to make it on your own. You need help. You are childlike. You are less. That's what it says.

Moreover would you want to entrust yourself or a loved one to undergo life-threatening surgery if you knew your surgeon was a product of Affirmative Action and had very poor grades in med school? Maybe shouldn't have passed but there was a quota to be filled?

Remember Jayson Blair, the black, now-disgraced, former up-and-coming reporter of the New York Times who personified everything wrong with racial preferences? Under a program designed to increase minority (black) representation, Jayson Blair snared a job with the most prestigiuos paper in the country.

Few quarrel with "outreach" or ensuring a wide net cast over all available, qualified candidates. Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, in his biography, "My American Journey", distinguished between outreach and racial preferences: "Equal rights and equal opportunity, mean just that. Preferences, no matter how well intended, ultimately breed resentment among the nonpreferred. And preferential treatment demeans the achievements that minority Americans win by their own efforts. The present debate over affirmative action has a lot to do with definitions. If affirmative action means programs that provide equal opportunity, then I am all for it. If it leads to preferential treatment or helps those who no longer need help, I am opposed. I benefitted from equal opportunity and affirmative action in the Army, but I was not shown preference. The Army, as a matter of fairness, made sure that performance would be the only measure of advancement....Affirmative action in the best sense promotes equal consideration, not reverse discrimination. Discrimination 'for' one group means, inevitably, discrimination 'against' another; and all discrimination is offensive."

In Blair's case, management overlooked errors, omissions, and outright fabrications, yet promoted him rapidly through the ranks. Blair himself admits benefiting from racial preferences (although he blames racism, in part, for his implosion).

New York Times executive director Howell Raines, in a post-Jayson Blair townhall meeting with the paper's reporters, addressed whether race provided Blair some degree of cover and less scrutiny. "Our paper has a commitment to diversity and by all accounts he appeared to be a prominsing young minority reporter," said Raines. "I believe in agressively providing hiring and career opportunities for minorities.

Does that mean I personally favored Jayson?" he added. "Not consciously. But you have a right to ask if I, as a white man from Alabama, with those convictions (emphasis added), gave him one chance too many by not stopping his appointment to the sniper team. When I look into my heart for the truth of that, the answer is yes."

Senator Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., a few years ago, praised black Dr. Patrick Chavis, an "affirmative action" admittee at UC Davis medical school, who "gave back" by starting a practice in the inner city. Kennedy called Chavis a "perfect example" of how this product of race-based preferences serves his community. Yet Chavis later lost his medical license after numerous allegations of medical malpractice, including a case of gross negligence resulting in the death of a patient.

Blair and Chavis represent, of course, cases of extreme incompetence and dishonesty. But what of doctors, mechanics, engineers, and other critical life-and-death jobs filled by those "boosted" via lessened standards? How many supervisors either cover up, look the other way, or must pay additional scrutiny to "preferred hires"? When you board a 747 and notice a female pilot, do you applaud "gender diversity" or do you expect that she, like her male counterparts, aced flight school? When you call 911, do you request a Hispanic, a woman, an Asian, or someone well-equipped and qualified, who mastered the standards applicable to all?

Graduation rates of those admitted under "special criteria" fall well below the rates of regular admittees. Affirmative action prematurely pushes a AAA ball player into the major leagues, increasing the likelihood of failure when the student would otherwise succeed at a less competitve school. The Detroit News studied seven Michegan colleges and found that by lowering standards, " Universities knowingly admit (minority) students who have a high chance of failing."

Arturo Moreno, a "self-made" Mexican-American, near-billionaire advertiser, and the new owner of the Anaheim Angels baseball team, personifies success achieved through hard work, perseverance and ability. Do you, reporters asked Moreno, feel special pressure or an obligation to hire Latinos?" "I've always tried to open doors to anyone--male, female, black, green, brown, whatever," said Moreno. "Everybody should be equal on the playing field. People have been sued for reverse discrimination. You have to hire the person that's most qualified, because they've worked hard to be in that position. I'm not going to say I'm here now and we've got to segregate ourselves, when what we've tried to do in America is open the door for everyone."

Who better personifies King's vision of a color-blind society? Jayson Blair or Arturo Moreno?

quote:

Originally posted by TonyB1972:

quote:

Originally posted by SnowDawg88:
^^^If I own a business it's my decision who I do don't hire and for whatever reasons I want.

You don't like it? Start your own business.

How many white guys do you see working at your neighborhood Chinese restaraunt?

I believe when I was 14 I worked at a Japanese Steakhouse...Does that count?

I am white and i used to work at a Chinese restaraunt when i was a kid.. 16.

Well if in fact that Obama is elected as president than that should be just cause to terminate affirmative action, for it shows that the minorities have just that same fair opportunities as that of non-minorities.

If Obama is elected president that must mean that he was elected because the country thought he was the best for the position, and all other employment should be treated as such.

.

This is a good question.

My old supervisor was promoted because of affirmative action, i believe (plus the fact that she was sorta cute didn't hurt one bit), and i think if she took an IQ test she would have scored in the WELL less-than-average range.... I don't mean to be mean, but brains she didn't have.

She almost always answered, "I don't know" to most questions we asked of her, and used to sit in an office most of the day, and do nothing. Her big decision every day was, "What should i order for lunch?"

"What are you having?"

I swear to God she worked about 45 minutes to an hour every day, and that is that. She was like a cancer to our company, collecting a free paycheck for years on end.

After years and years of doing this, she was finally let go a few months ago. (GOOD.)

So i guess Affirmative Action is good for minorities... lol, hell, i don't know what to say without offending anyone!

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Question: If a white person works in a business with mostly black people, say around 80 to 90%, are the whites considered the minority or no?

(Hmmmmmm, i wonder....)