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Picture of fishtheice
Posted
WASHINGTON – Cheered by President Barack Obama, House Democrats rolled out landmark legislation Thursday to extend health care to tens of millions who lack coverage, impose sweeping new restrictions on the insurance industry and create a government-run option to compete with private insurers.

But even as party leaders pointed toward a vote next week, there were fresh questions that went to the heart of their ambitious drive to remake the nation's health care system.

Congressional budget experts predicted the controversial government insurance option would probably cost consumers somewhat more than private coverage. At the same time, rank-and-file conservative Democrats sought additional information about the bill's overall impact on federal health care spending.

There was no official estimate on the total cost of the legislation, which ran to 1,990 pages. The Congressional Budget Office said the cost of additional coverage alone was slightly more $1 trillion over a decade. But that omitted other items, including billions for disease prevention programs.

Yet another $230 billion or more in higher fees for doctors treating Medicare patients, included in an earlier version of the bill, was stripped out and will be voted on separately.

The measure "covers 96 percent of all Americans, and it puts affordable coverage in reach for millions of uninsured and underinsured families, lowering health care costs for all of us," boasted Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., at a ceremony attended by dozens of Democratic lawmakers. She spoke on the steps of the Capitol, not far from where Obama issued his inaugural summons for Congress to act more than nine months ago.

Pelosi said the legislation would reduce federal deficits over the next decade by $104 billion, and congressional budget experts said it would probably reduce them even further over the following ten years

While saying they expected a vote next week, Democratic leaders were careful not to claim they had yet rounded up enough votes to pass the legislation. Still, the day's events capped months of struggle and marked a major advance in their drive — and Obama's — to accomplish an overhaul of the health care system that has eluded presidents for a half-century.

Across the Capitol, the Democratic-controlled Senate is expected to begin debate within two weeks on a bill crafted by Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. It, too, envisions a government-run insurance option, although states could opt out, unlike in the bill the House will vote on. That portion of the Senate version appears likely to be weakened even further, as moderates press for a standby system that would not go into effect until it was clear individual states were experiencing a lack of competition among private companies.

Obama called the House legislation "another critical milestone in the effort to reform our health care system."

Republican reaction was as swift as it was negative. "It will raise the cost of Americans' health insurance premiums; it will kill jobs with tax hikes and new mandates, and it will cut seniors' Medicare benefits," said the party's leader in the House, Rep. John Boehner of Ohio. He carried a copy of the 1,990-page measure into a news conference to underscore his claim it represented a government takeover of the health care system.

Republicans have already signaled their determination to make the health care debate a key issue in next year's congressional elections, when all 435 House seats will be on the ballot.

But their ability to block passage in the current House is nonexistent as long as Pelosi and her leadership can forge a consensus among the Democratic rank and file. The party holds 256 seats in the House, where 218 makes a majority.

Broad in scope, the House Democrats' bill attempts to build on the current system of employer-provided health care. It would require big companies to cover their employees and include federal subsidies to help small companies provide insurance for theirs, as well. Most individuals would be required to carry insurance, and much of the money in the legislation is dedicated to subsidies for those at lower incomes to help them afford coverage.

For those at even lower incomes, the bill provides for an expansion of Medicaid, the state-federal health program for the poor. Adults up to 150 percent of poverty — individuals making up to $16,245 and a family of four up to $33,075 — would be covered, a provision estimated to add 15 million to Medicaid.

One of the bill's major features is a new national insurance market, in which private companies could sell policies that meet federally mandated benefit levels, the government would offer competing coverage and consumers could shop for the policy that best met their needs.

In a bow to moderates, Democrats decided doctors, hospitals and other providers would be allowed to negotiate rates with the Department of Health and Human Services for services provided in the government insurance option.

Liberals had favored a system in which fees would be dictated by the government, an approach that would have been less costly than what was settled on, and also would have moved closer to a purely government-run health care system than some Democrats favor.

The Congressional Budget Office said the result would be fees comparable to those doctors receive from private insurers. But for consumers, government-backed plans "would typically have premiums that are somewhat higher than the average premiums for private plans" sold in competition. As a result, it said enrollment would be only about 6 million.

Conservative Democrats known as Blue Dogs reacted to the overall CBO analysis by asking whether the bill would reduce the long-term rate of growth in federal spending. They noted the agency had said last summer that an earlier version would fail to do so, and they said they wanted updated answers "in order to make an informed decision."

Thursday's bill includes an array of new restrictions on the private insurance industry, in addition to forcing insurers to compete with the federal government for business.

Firms would be banned from denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions and limited in their ability to charge higher premiums on the basis of age.

They would be required to spend 85 percent of their income from premiums on coverage, effectively limiting their ability to advertise or pay bonuses. Additionally, the industry would be stripped of immunity from antitrust regulations covering price fixing, bid rigging and market allocation. And in a late addition to the bill, 30-year-old restrictions on the Federal Trade Commission's ability to look into the insurance industry would be erased.

In response, the industry's top lobbyist, Karen Ignagni, issued a statement containing a somewhat milder version of criticism than recently unleashed against the Senate's version of the legislation. "We are concerned" the House bill will violate assurances that individuals would be able to keep their insurance if they like it, she said. She said it would be responsible for "increasing health care costs for families and employers across the country and significantly disrupting the quality coverage on which millions of Americans rely today."

Ignagni added that the presence of a government-run insurance plan "would bankrupt hospitals, dismantle employer coverage, exacerbate cost-shifting from Medicare and Medicaid and ultimately increase the federal deficit."

While Democrats touted new benefits for seniors, the bill relies on more than $400 billion in cuts from projected Medicare spending over the next decade. Much of the money would come from the part of the program in which private companies offer coverage to seniors.

The bill's other major new source of revenue is from a proposed income tax surcharge of 5.4 percent on wealthy earners, individuals making at least $500,000 a year and couples $1 million or more.

The legislation includes other taxes, such as a 2.5 percent excise tax on the makers of medical devices, expected to raise $20 billion over a decade.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...health_care_overhaul


_______________________
When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826).
 
Posts: 1784 | Location: Big Sky Country | Registered: September 05, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of farmville dawg
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I do not know how I feel about this bill. It doesn't sound right for some reason. I obviously don't have time to read 1990 pages of double talk, but I think someone in government could take that document and break it down into its essential pieces to help us better understand it.

I also do not know how it is possible to do this and lower the federal deficit by $110 billion. I also find it funny that they want to call the source of revenue a surcharge. Why not call it an increase in income tax for those people.

I also don't know how they expect to charge an excise tax on medical device producers and not have those devices cost more for the consumer.

I'm all for a change in the heath care system but I'm not sure from this little bit of information that this is the way it should be done.
 
Posts: 555 | Location: Farmville, VA | Registered: September 14, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of fishtheice
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by farmville dawg:
I do not know how I feel about this bill. It doesn't sound right for some reason. I obviously don't have time to read 1990 pages of double talk, but I think someone in government could take that document and break it down into its essential pieces to help us better understand it.



Thanks Farm, It doesn't sound right to me either. I thought the 1300 pages were excessive and now 1990 pages. Geez, can we just take a time out and review and discuss this bill?


_______________________
When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826).
 
Posts: 1784 | Location: Big Sky Country | Registered: September 05, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of BuckDawg1946
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i wish i had health care


_____________________
Josh Cribbs to the House!!__it must be the lake effect
================>
 
Posts: 2708 | Location: 40°0'N 82°53'W | Registered: September 06, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of fishtheice
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I hope TXFAN gives his thoughts. He has read through most of the original bill.


_______________________
When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826).
 
Posts: 1784 | Location: Big Sky Country | Registered: September 05, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I don't know what that the private industry is complaining about, if everyone is REQUIRED to have insurance and people don't want the government option because it will be as awful as they claim, they'll have no choice but to buy into the private system.

I don't agree that we should be required to have insurance. I believe one has the right to be anonymous, especially if the gov't option fails. How do they enforce that law? Healthcare police?


blah blah blah
 
Posts: 225 | Registered: June 22, 2009Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of weinerdog
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by daDieken:
I don't know what that the private industry is complaining about, if everyone is REQUIRED to have insurance and people don't want the government option because it will be as awful as they claim, they'll have no choice but to buy into the private system.

I don't agree that we should be required to have insurance. I believe one has the right to be anonymous, especially if the gov't option fails. How do they enforce that law? Healthcare police?
Probably when someone show up to the emergency room asking for help.
 
Posts: 4104 | Registered: September 10, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BuckDawg1946:
i wish i had health care



You can afford a computer but not health care? Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 1819 | Location: NW Ohio | Registered: September 07, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of TonyB1972
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My biggest concern is reeling in the costs and increases....I am not health care expert, but I don't see how this is going to reign in the costs at the hospital.

I have insurance through my new company (its a PPO with 3 levels of deductables, with each being more, and so on, 250 for the year, 500, 1000). I am on the $500, its reasonable for me and not that much of a burdon. The rumor is that next year the costs are going up, and the deductables are going to double for each tier. I cannot verify this, but this is the type of thing I complain about. How is it things change so much in one year? My old company, we changed carriers like every 1-2 years due to sometimes the permiums going up 40% in one year. So I say the system is broken, but im not sure how this addresses or fixes it.


BuckDawg, I thought you worked at OSU? I find it difficult to believe you don't have health care, unless you opted out or something. I couldbe wrong, but its what I remember.
 
Posts: 1972 | Registered: January 01, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of DON QUIXOTE
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I still worry about basic Supply and Demand

How in the world do we add all this healthcare to all these new patients without increasing the supply of medical workers? 70 hour work weeks and more immigrants?

We still have major hurdles ($$$) for anyone considering entering this field. If we start reform by funding the colleges, programs and students we can get qualified candidates in the system. The price of health care will drop and the quality will improve.
 
Posts: 2333 | Location: Tampa | Registered: September 09, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of DON QUIXOTE
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dawg57:
quote:
Originally posted by BuckDawg1946:
i wish i had health care



You can afford a computer but not health care? Roll Eyes


This is a HUGE point. How many of these millions of uninsured "can't" afford healthcare but can afford tobacco, alcohol, video games, cable, internet, Hummers, Bling, etc?

Are we funding a basic necessity or insuring the luxuries of our capitalist system?
 
Posts: 2333 | Location: Tampa | Registered: September 09, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
This bill is just more Liberal politics as usual as it tries to appease the Liberal voters in crutial elections such as for Harry Reid. Everyone in Washington knows it is doomed to failure! Don't believe me, just watch as the Democrats fail to pass it.
 
Posts: 1237 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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If this passes and goes to the "messiah" for his signature it will be bohica time.
BEND OVER HERE IT COMES AGAIN
 
Posts: 434 | Registered: September 08, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of Me4president
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by daDieken:
I don't know what that the private industry is complaining about, if everyone is REQUIRED to have insurance and people don't want the government option because it will be as awful as they claim, they'll have no choice but to buy into the private system.

I don't agree that we should be required to have insurance. I believe one has the right to be anonymous, especially if the gov't option fails. How do they enforce that law? Healthcare police?


I think the "public plan" will be cheaper and people will flock to it. Kind of like welfare, MANY play the system to take advantage of it and if the same happens with HC then the private insurances will be destroyed.

Cheaper HC sounds great, but like most social programs it will lower the average over the nation. Instead of lifting the poor up to the middle class HC it will drop the middle class down to the poor. The wealthy will, like normal, be unaffected.

Also it's a power grab by the government to have more control over the private sector. If we did not have sooo many failed social programs bankrupting us at the moment I think it would get a stronger look, but the U.S. people just don't trust the government Republican or Democrat, and for good reason.

I also do not agree that we should be required to have insurance.

It is governments duty to protect the right, not supply the need. Insurance is not a right.
 
Posts: 1378 | Registered: September 21, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Excellent point Me4...

The idea may SOUND like a good one for the people BUT the game these days is "to take advantage of the system" which ruins it for all of us!
 
Posts: 1237 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of daDieken
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Me4president:
quote:
Originally posted by daDieken:
I don't know what that the private industry is complaining about, if everyone is REQUIRED to have insurance and people don't want the government option because it will be as awful as they claim, they'll have no choice but to buy into the private system.

I don't agree that we should be required to have insurance. I believe one has the right to be anonymous, especially if the gov't option fails. How do they enforce that law? Healthcare police?


I think the "public plan" will be cheaper and people will flock to it. Kind of like welfare, MANY play the system to take advantage of it and if the same happens with HC then the private insurances will be destroyed.

Cheaper HC sounds great, but like most social programs it will lower the average over the nation. Instead of lifting the poor up to the middle class HC it will drop the middle class down to the poor. The wealthy will, like normal, be unaffected.

Also it's a power grab by the government to have more control over the private sector. If we did not have sooo many failed social programs bankrupting us at the moment I think it would get a stronger look, but the U.S. people just don't trust the government Republican or Democrat, and for good reason.

I also do not agree that we should be required to have insurance.

It is governments duty to protect the right, not supply the need. Insurance is not a right.


I don't see how the middle class is brought down as long as they have the choice of keeping their private insurance?

Or you could look at like the government is taking control over part an industry that is more concerned for profits than the health of its own subscribers. Did you know that medicare is the only insurance that does not place any restrictions on doctors when it comes to treatment? For this reason, there are doctors who only accept medicare and no private insurers.

I believe affordable health care is a right.


blah blah blah
 
Posts: 225 | Registered: June 22, 2009Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of BuckDawg1946
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quote:
BuckDawg, I thought you worked at OSU? I find it difficult to believe you don't have health care,


I did, laid off 10/1/09. while i worked there i still didnt have health care. It was a temp position after graduation. I have officially been thrown to the shark of post grad job placement.


_____________________
Josh Cribbs to the House!!__it must be the lake effect
================>
 
Posts: 2708 | Location: 40°0'N 82°53'W | Registered: September 06, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of BuckDawg1946
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quote:
How many of these millions of uninsured "can't" afford healthcare but can afford tobacco, alcohol, video games, cable, internet


spread the technology, spread the health care. If we are so advanced we should be able to take care of people working 40+, we cant even take care of the backbone of america.


_____________________
Josh Cribbs to the House!!__it must be the lake effect
================>
 
Posts: 2708 | Location: 40°0'N 82°53'W | Registered: September 06, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of TonyB1972
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BuckDawg1946:
quote:
BuckDawg, I thought you worked at OSU? I find it difficult to believe you don't have health care,


I did, laid off 10/1/09. while i worked there i still didnt have health care. It was a temp position after graduation. I have officially been thrown to the shark of post grad job placement.



Goodluck with the job search.
 
Posts: 1972 | Registered: January 01, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of BeWaRe_of_Dawg34
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dawg57:
quote:
Originally posted by BuckDawg1946:
i wish i had health care



You can afford a computer but not health care? Roll Eyes


Are you serious?

A good computer is $400

Crap health care in it's basic coverage is between $4000 to $6000 a year.

see the difference.

But still I have doubts about the governments health care agenda and my hard earned cash.

It just feels like they will stop at nothing to get my money in thier pockets!

I want to here about true reform not an option.
Wether or not I buy insurance or who I buy it from does not seem to me to be addressing the actual problem with our current system.

If they were trying to find solutions to stopping the rising cost of actual health care then the insurance we pay would start to be more affordable. Creating a govt insurance company will in no way stop the costs of health care from increasing.

Smells to fishy to be good for us.


------------------------------
Derek Anderson 10.5 QB rating week 8-NOT SMACK JUST FACT
 
Posts: 924 | Location: Rock Springs,Wyoming | Registered: September 10, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of BeWaRe_of_Dawg34
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DON QUIXOTE:
quote:
Originally posted by Dawg57:
quote:
Originally posted by BuckDawg1946:
i wish i had health care



You can afford a computer but not health care? Roll Eyes


This is a HUGE point. How many of these millions of uninsured "can't" afford healthcare but can afford tobacco, alcohol, video games, cable, internet, Hummers, Bling, etc?

Are we funding a basic necessity or insuring the luxuries of our capitalist system?


So a computer is a luxury? How do you know he deosn't need his computer to make a living?

Jeesh, I have 5 in my family and make less than 30,000 a year and pay $500 a month for health insurance. THAT IS $6000 DOLLARS A YEAR. Do I have a choice between a hummer or health care, sure but I am also trying to feed and cloth my family!

I have needed to be hospitalized or recieve emergency care ZERO times in 30 years of my adult life. That adds up to , oh about $180,000 dollars of useless insurance.


------------------------------
Derek Anderson 10.5 QB rating week 8-NOT SMACK JUST FACT
 
Posts: 924 | Location: Rock Springs,Wyoming | Registered: September 10, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of daDieken
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BuckDawg1946:
quote:
How many of these millions of uninsured "can't" afford healthcare but can afford tobacco, alcohol, video games, cable, internet


spread the technology, spread the health care. If we are so advanced we should be able to take care of people working 40+, we cant even take care of the backbone of america.


To hear the neo-cons tell it, us middle class working people are not the back bone of the country and don't deserve affordable health care. That's okay, it will backfire on them when the 2010 elections come around.


blah blah blah
 
Posts: 225 | Registered: June 22, 2009Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
"Neo-cons" "Liberals" "Republicans" "Democrats"...................... "We'll see what happens in 2010"...... This cracks me up, take your blinders off people!
 
Posts: 121 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: September 22, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BeWaRe_of_Dawg34:
quote:
Originally posted by DON QUIXOTE:
quote:
Originally posted by Dawg57:
quote:
Originally posted by BuckDawg1946:
i wish i had health care



You can afford a computer but not health care? Roll Eyes


This is a HUGE point. How many of these millions of uninsured "can't" afford healthcare but can afford tobacco, alcohol, video games, cable, internet, Hummers, Bling, etc?

Are we funding a basic necessity or insuring the luxuries of our capitalist system?


So a computer is a luxury? How do you know he deosn't need his computer to make a living?

Jeesh, I have 5 in my family and make less than 30,000 a year and pay $500 a month for health insurance. THAT IS $6000 DOLLARS A YEAR. Do I have a choice between a hummer or health care, sure but I am also trying to feed and cloth my family!

I have needed to be hospitalized or recieve emergency care ZERO times in 30 years of my adult life. That adds up to , oh about $180,000 dollars of useless insurance.


My comment was short but if I can expand on it: I'll also bet there is a Big screen TV in there, Cable, Cell phone, and probably alot more. The trouble with alot of Americans is that have no clue what real poverty is. I remember a few years ago when welfare reform was being done the local TV station was interviewing some of the local riff raff and the complaints about having to pay the OWN Electric bills! This while talking on a Cell phone and stating she was out looking for a new Color TV. The nanny state at its finest.
 
Posts: 1819 | Location: NW Ohio | Registered: September 07, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of Me4president
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by daDieken:
I don't see how the middle class is brought down as long as they have the choice of keeping their private insurance?

Quick answer? TAXES!

The people at the bottom don't pay taxes, so everything you "give" them is paid for by the people who do pay taxes.

If you only tax the rich you will get trickle down taxes. The wealthy will...

1. Buy less. You know, things that the middle class makes/services.

2. Hire less/cut jobs. Most wealthy own businesses and to make up the difference they will employee less people.

3. Charge more. The businesses that they do own will charge more for goods/services to make up the taxes paid. You know, like when they raise min. wage and the cost of EVERYTHING else goes up and it is usually a larger % than the wage increase....


quote:
Or you could look at like the government is taking control

I do and it is why I do not want it.

quote:
over part an industry that is more concerned for profits than the health of its own subscribers. Did you know that medicare is the only insurance that does not place any restrictions on doctors when it comes to treatment? For this reason, there are doctors who only accept medicare and no private insurers.

Did you know that Medicare runs in a debt? If you feel that insurance companies are big evil, greedy, bad guys then start up an insurance company that is a "nice guy" company and take all their business! I mean it couldn't have anything to do with lawsuits, fraud or government limiting insurance companies to districts or states could it?

Don't get me wrong, there are bad companies and not having the choice to pick what company you use enables those bad companies to do whatever they want to you.


quote:
I believe affordable health care is a right.

I'll have to re-read the Bill of Rights.

Regardless, I do not think we should do anything to remove health care or health insurance. I feel that government screws up just about every social program they put in and we can not afford this screw up. Let health insurance be run the same way as auto insurance without forcing people to have it. Give a tax cut to low income families if you want but do not let the government "take control" of our health industry, they will destroy it.
 
Posts: 1378 | Registered: September 21, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of fishtheice
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REVIEW & OUTLOOK NOVEMBER 10, 2009 Confessions of an ObamaCare Backer

A liberal explains the political calculus.


The typical argument for ObamaCare is that it will offer better medical care for everyone and cost less to do it, but occasionally a supporter lets the mask slip and reveals the real political motivation. So let's give credit to John Cassidy, part of the left-wing stable at the New Yorker, who wrote last week on its Web site that "it's important to be clear about what the reform amounts to."

Mr. Cassidy is more honest than the politicians whose dishonesty he supports. "The U.S. government is making a costly and open-ended commitment," he writes. "Let's not pretend that it isn't a big deal, or that it will be self-financing, or that it will work out exactly as planned. It won't. What is really unfolding, I suspect, is the scenario that many conservatives feared. The Obama Administration . . . is creating a new entitlement program, which, once established, will be virtually impossible to rescind."

Why are they doing it? Because, according to Mr. Cassidy, ObamaCare serves the twin goals of "making the United States a more equitable country" and furthering the Democrats' "political calculus." In other words, the purpose is to further redistribute income by putting health care further under government control, and in the process making the middle class more dependent on government. As the party of government, Democrats will benefit over the long run.

This explains why Nancy Pelosi is willing to risk the seats of so many Blue Dog Democrats by forcing such an unpopular bill through Congress on a narrow, partisan vote: You have to break a few eggs to make a permanent welfare state. As Mr. Cassidy concludes, "Putting on my amateur historian's cap, I might even claim that some subterfuge is historically necessary to get great reforms enacted."

No wonder many Americans are upset. They know they are being lied to about ObamaCare, and they know they are going to be stuck with the bill

http://online.wsj.com/article/...522680235765894.html


_______________________
When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826).
 
Posts: 1784 | Location: Big Sky Country | Registered: September 05, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of TTTaurus57
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I thought the 1300 pages were excessive and now 1990 pages. Geez, can we just take a time out and review and discuss this bill?

-----------------------------------------------

Nope. Just pass it. Hurry, hurry, hurry. Smiler


MNFs Don Meredith on Fair Hooker: "I never met one".


"Badges"? "Badges"? "We don't have to show you any stinking badges".
 
Posts: 983 | Location: Chagrin Falls, O-HI-O | Registered: December 17, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of weinerdog
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quote:
Originally posted by TTTaurus57:
I thought the 1300 pages were excessive and now 1990 pages. Geez, can we just take a time out and review and discuss this bill?

-----------------------------------------------

Nope. Just pass it. Hurry, hurry, hurry. Smiler


MNFs Don Meredith on Fair Hooker: "I never met one".
I sincerely doubt that the real problem with this bill is the number of pages. I also doubt that anyone in congress who wanted to study hasn't had the opportunity to do so. There are very specific complaints from both sides about this bill. I'm not sure it will survive.
 
Posts: 4104 | Registered: September 10, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fishtheice:
REVIEW & OUTLOOK NOVEMBER 10, 2009 Confessions of an ObamaCare Backer

A liberal explains the political calculus.


The typical argument for ObamaCare is that it will offer better medical care for everyone and cost less to do it, but occasionally a supporter lets the mask slip and reveals the real political motivation. So let's give credit to John Cassidy, part of the left-wing stable at the New Yorker, who wrote last week on its Web site that "it's important to be clear about what the reform amounts to."

Mr. Cassidy is more honest than the politicians whose dishonesty he supports. "The U.S. government is making a costly and open-ended commitment," he writes. "Let's not pretend that it isn't a big deal, or that it will be self-financing, or that it will work out exactly as planned. It won't. What is really unfolding, I suspect, is the scenario that many conservatives feared. The Obama Administration . . . is creating a new entitlement program, which, once established, will be virtually impossible to rescind."

Why are they doing it? Because, according to Mr. Cassidy, ObamaCare serves the twin goals of "making the United States a more equitable country" and furthering the Democrats' "political calculus." In other words, the purpose is to further redistribute income by putting health care further under government control, and in the process making the middle class more dependent on government. As the party of government, Democrats will benefit over the long run.

This explains why Nancy Pelosi is willing to risk the seats of so many Blue Dog Democrats by forcing such an unpopular bill through Congress on a narrow, partisan vote: You have to break a few eggs to make a permanent welfare state. As Mr. Cassidy concludes, "Putting on my amateur historian's cap, I might even claim that some subterfuge is historically necessary to get great reforms enacted."

No wonder many Americans are upset. They know they are being lied to about ObamaCare, and they know they are going to be stuck with the bill

http://online.wsj.com/article/...522680235765894.html

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Using an opinion piece to try and bolster your argument is weak at best. If you don't like the health care bill on the table tell us why you don't like it and what your ideas are.
 
Posts: 82 | Registered: November 10, 2009Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Originally posted by bayvillagebrowns:
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Using an opinion piece to try and bolster your argument is weak at best. If you don't like the health care bill on the table tell us why you don't like it and what your ideas are.


The opinion piece was from one of your own liberals. The health care bill was just put on the internet within the last couple of days for the public to read. Have you read the 1900+ pages to form an opinion of why you like it? Is it such a bad idea to take the time to understand this bill?


_______________________
When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826).
 
Posts: 1784 | Location: Big Sky Country | Registered: September 05, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by fishtheice:
quote:
Originally posted by bayvillagebrowns:
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Using an opinion piece to try and bolster your argument is weak at best. If you don't like the health care bill on the table tell us why you don't like it and what your ideas are.


The opinion piece was from one of your own liberals. The health care bill was just put on the internet within the last couple of days for the public to read. Have you read the 1900+ pages to form an opinion of why you like it? Is it such a bad idea to take the time to understand this bill?


I don't know about anyone else but I just spent an hour trying to read through this bill and all I can say is "Wow." It is so convoluted and unreadable it's no wonder no one ever gets anything done in Washington. I can honestly say I found it very difficult to follow and I don't believe that I'm stupid, but trying to follow this didn't make me understand it any better.
 
Posts: 555 | Location: Farmville, VA | Registered: September 14, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Originally posted by farmville dawg:
quote:
Originally posted by fishtheice:
quote:
Originally posted by bayvillagebrowns:
-
Using an opinion piece to try and bolster your argument is weak at best. If you don't like the health care bill on the table tell us why you don't like it and what your ideas are.


The opinion piece was from one of your own liberals. The health care bill was just put on the internet within the last couple of days for the public to read. Have you read the 1900+ pages to form an opinion of why you like it? Is it such a bad idea to take the time to understand this bill?


I don't know about anyone else but I just spent an hour trying to read through this bill and all I can say is "Wow." It is so convoluted and unreadable it's no wonder no one ever gets anything done in Washington. I can honestly say I found it very difficult to follow and I don't believe that I'm stupid, but trying to follow this didn't make me understand it any better.



It wasn't meant to be understood. In fact they will make sure you can't understand it because it's not about healthcare, it's about control. Bit by bit,piece by piece we're watching our freedom slip away. If the Government controls your healthcare, your retirement, business, education,and the media, you will no longer live in a free society. And that's what the 2 political parties want, POWER. Stand up to them or be prepared to kneel.
 
Posts: 1819 | Location: NW Ohio | Registered: September 07, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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The priority for me, is to control costs, and I haven't seen anyone explain how thats going to happen that makes much sense...If you keep costs down, then more people and businesses can afford to cover people.

I just read that premiums were going to go up like 12-15%...Most people got a pink slip, or no raise. Its broken, that should be the priority....to keep the costs down. Then it will be more effective imo.

If the way to keep the cost down is to get everyone on the goverment plan, then you will end up paying the cost in taxes, instead of a premium. Then its a money shift.


I will admit, I haven't read it, but I don't have much faith in people in washington....Not just someone from a particular party. People are too tied to lobbyist to ever get something that is only about good imo.
 
Posts: 1972 | Registered: January 01, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I know I heard Obama speak about it, and I would be very interested to here what will be done to change the health care industry at the grass roots level.

What I mean is this.

Will we change the emphasis in health care to prevention as apposed to crisis care.

It may seem like a small insignificant change but to me it is key to health care reform.

As has been pointed out on more then one occasion our health care system is second to none when it comes to crisis care. Where our health care system falls short of the mark is in prevention. Prevention is where the real savings come from. If we can begin to improve on the prevention side we can actually reduce the overall costs of health care across the board.

Without this key ingredient any health care reform will have failed us all.

It doesn’t take a CPA to know that it’s cheaper to treat someone in the doctors office -vs- the ER, so for sure there are savings to be had there alone. The next step has to be prevention IMO.

I applaud the effort to make the needed changes, but just what are those changes, and how does that affect our care. Prevention is critical IMO.

I applaud reining in the insurance industry, but have a sense of unease about the 85-15 part. That’s the same sort of deal we have with the oil companies, and what it does is it sets the insurance companies up to actually encourage increased health care costs. Not that they don’t already but this sets it in stone.

At the end of the day though we absolutely need health care reform without it we would all be in jeopardy sometime in the not so distant future. I didn’t expect perfection from the start. I know this is but a beginning and that adjustments and changes will be made to this new way of doing business. The heart of the thing is the right course to start with so I endorse it 1000%.

JMHO


Upbeat

#12 is DEAD
 
Posts: 376 | Registered: March 09, 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Somewhere in Iraq Doom is laughing. . . .


"Excuses are the refuge of the weak" -Victor Von Doom
 
Posts: 775 | Registered: September 25, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/.../sickaroundtheworld/ this was a great documentary about this topic that was very informative about other countries health care systems. Japan,Taiwan,Germany,UK,Switzerland and ours. It seems that we should take the best ideas out of each system and use them for ourselves. All have some good and bad in their systems but the Swiss seem to have the best system as a compromise to everyone- rich, poor,middle-class, hospitals,doctors,insurance companies,pharmaceuticals etc. I recommend you all check it out! It does seem strange to me that this whole thing hasn't been explained at all really yet people are so up in arms about it.
 
Posts: 209 | Registered: April 01, 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Originally posted by Victor Von Doom:
Somewhere in Iraq Doom is laughing. . . .


Where ever you are I'm glad to see you're okay! Cool


My two cents...
Ted
 
Posts: 711 | Location: Powell, Ohio | Registered: September 14, 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Originally posted by MrTed:
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Originally posted by Victor Von Doom:
Somewhere in Iraq Doom is laughing. . . .


Where ever you are I'm glad to see you're okay! Cool


Here here. Just remember Doom, if you need the Fantastic 4 to save you just activate your secret decoder ring. Big Grin Seriously though, keep your head low and stay safe you are needed here.
 
Posts: 555 | Location: Farmville, VA | Registered: September 14, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Originally posted by Victor Von Doom:
Somewhere in Iraq Doom is laughing. . . .


God bless you DOOM! Keep safe, Superbowl coming up in the next two years! GO BROWNS!

Tell all the guys and gals over there with you that we appreciate their service and admire their bravery!

What's the difference between an American soldier and a Taliban fighter? In a few more years there won't be such a thing as a Taliban fighter!!! WHO YA!!!
 
Posts: 1237 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Somewhere in Iraq Doom is laughing. . .



God bless Doom..stay safe. Nice to hear you have a sense of humor. Wink


_______________________
When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826).
 
Posts: 1784 | Location: Big Sky Country | Registered: September 05, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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