quote:

Originally posted by Spiritbro77:
Mangini says he likes the play calling. So if you want someone's head.......

Just wondering when it is going to cross your minds that changing coaches, management, and players is precisely why we continue to stink every year?

quote:

Originally posted by Versatile Dog:

quote:

Originally posted by Spiritbro77:
Mangini says he likes the play calling. So if you want someone's head.......

Just wondering when it is going to cross your minds that changing coaches, management, and players is precisely why we continue to stink every year?

I was being sarcastic. If you read back I'm OPPOSED to firing Daboll after only TWO games. I think it ridiculous. Of course I think it the height of folly to judge Quinn off two starts in this offense. So......

I know you were being sarcastic.

LOL on the BQ thing. I succinctly remember you and others bad-mouthing DA before the first game was over.

quote:

Originally posted by BpG:
It's poor talent and execution, not play calling.

PERIOD. End of discussion (for me anyway).

Do you agree that good play calling can make poor talent produce at a higher level than it is? If so then no, it is not "end of discussion."

Furthermore why don't you tell me the immediate problems you see offensively and then explain to me why using some different approaches might not bring different results especially with tried and true football 101. They bring pressure very time, you throw some screens. They stop bringing pressure.

See let's take that one simple rule. Last year the defense began to T off on DA. CHUD called various screens to the HB's WR's ect trying to do everything he could from a coaches standpoint to alleviate that pressure. DA couldn't make the throws. Time and time again he failed. Go watch the film. That is poor talent and execution.

If we were doing some things like that which are guaranteed to work if they are properly executed then I would never question Daboll. I never questioned except for maybe some individual calls. I am questioning Daboll because he refuses to expand beyond his initial gameplan. Because top be a good coach you must be willing to improvise and do some things which maybe are not your "bread and butter."

Please, by all means, defend it.

quote:

Originally posted by Spiritbro77:

quote:

Originally posted by Versatile Dog:

quote:

Originally posted by Spiritbro77:
Mangini says he likes the play calling. So if you want someone's head.......

Just wondering when it is going to cross your minds that changing coaches, management, and players is precisely why we continue to stink every year?

I was being sarcastic. If you read back I'm OPPOSED to firing Daboll after only TWO games. I think it ridiculous. Of course I think it the height of folly to judge Quinn off two starts in this offense. So......

Daboll will not be fired. We all know that. The point is to raise awareness that this guy is not doing a good job.

The coach must execute first, then the players. The coach is failing miserably. The defense is the complete opposite.

quote:

Originally posted by Versatile Dog:
I will try to answer both posts.

First.........play calling has been fine. You wouldn't believe this, but all of us coaches....well....we design offensive plays to succeed. We don't have a "Succeed List" and a "Fail List." Each play, properly executed, can succeed.

The real key of coaching is to get your players to execute the called plays. Thus far, the Browns are not executing. You wanna blame the coaches for the lack of execution......go ahead. But let me tell you something........it isn't the play calling.

Me.......I think the execution lies on the players in this particular case. You may say I wanna bash BQ. I may say you wanna protect BQ. Regardless....we aren't getting it done and it isn't because of the play calling. All I ask dude...........is play fair.

Why should you be ashamed of yourself? Dude, you are calling him retarded. You are placing ALl of the blame on one guy. Do you really need to ask me that question?

Well coach... where do I begin. As a coach do you not understand that 1) It is your job to make your players execute by putting them in the absolute best position to do so and 2) An inflexible coach is a dead weight coach.

No, nobody has a fail list. But some coaches, as you know cause you are a coach, are extremely egotistical, others are incapable, and a very few can put aside all things personal for the benefit of the team. Coaches are people too right.

Once again. Explain why it is not the play calling. Explain to me how they get 2 sacks in a row where the defender is practically unevaded to the QB. Maybe a blown assignment. That is very possible. But as a coach WHAT COULD YOU DO TO ALLEVIATE THAT PRESSURE? THEY ARE TEEING OFF ON YOUR QB AND YOU ANSWER WITH MORE OF THE SAME. DO YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT SWITCHING TO A 3 STEP DROP OR USING A FEW SCREENS (STRICTLY FROM A PLAY CALLING STANDPOINT) WOULD NOT HELP ALLEVIATE THE PRESSURE?

See coach, I wouldn;t be hating on Daboll if the guy was trying to do some different things to help this offense work. But the thing is, he is not. His answer is to use minor adjustments, leaving an extra guy in to block ect and go on about the same game plan. Minor adjustments are useful but not enough in this situation. You have to be an innovator and Daboll is most certainly not.

If what you say is true then we do not need coaches. Football is a game strictly played by the players so execution is the only thing that matters. No. Football is a combination of many things and three stick out to me.

1. X's and O's. Football is a game of strategy and scheme, preperation and study.

2. Execution. Football is a game of players. Individual men who come together as a team and work under the guidelines of the strategy to produce results.

3. Heart. The best teams and the best players make plays when everyone else would fail. Football is a game of miracles and passion.

Everything you do is played out in that order... coach. It begins with you. Is passed onto your players. And ends with chance and heart. If you do not do your job they have 0 chance of success. I look at this offense and it is clear to me for various reasons that the coach is not doing a good enough job. Sure, the players are not executing. That is obvious. But how much of their lack of execution is their fault, blown assignments, failure to read the defense ect and how much is Daboll's lack of ability to give them the chance to make plays. It boils down to that. I stick up for these players. They work hard and they try hard and it makes me very angry to witness their hard being flushed down the toilet by their general. Furthermore this town is very very starved and we eat players alive. This is BQ's season. If he fails we will eat him. We really need the OC to give him the best shot possible because you can't just go drafting a new QB every year.

Well coach?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CJD,

quote:

Originally posted by azdawg:

quote:

Originally posted by BpG:
It's poor talent and execution, not play calling.

PERIOD. End of discussion (for me anyway).

I agree, our talent level is poor, and when that poor talent cannot execute, then you get the team we see on Sundays. Its pretty simple IMO, poor drafting for the past 10 years= a bad football team. Really assess this offense, Daboll is working with a rookie center, half of an O-line, No RB's, one playmaker (Braylon), not too mention trying to teach Cribbs how to be an NFL WR, blocking TE's, ect...ect...ect...
Oh I almost forgot, two 2nd round pick WR's who apparently are going to need 3 years to develope, no Percy Harvin in that bunch, what do you expect, really???

Let me answer this strictly form an opinionated perspective.

Josh Cribbs is an incredible athlete. When you have incredible athletes you do whatever you can to get them the ball. You mean to tell me we could not maybe do a better job of that?

Mack certainly is a hazard as well as the right side of the line. So why on earth would you not implement some 3 step drops as a MAJOR part of your offensive gameplan. If you know the QB is not going to have all day why use a formation which is known to be extremely complicated for an O-line to protect from. See the shotgun is very very useful and if you want to make it a base then fine. But you cannot expect St. Clair to protect from this formation much and certainly not without help. You need agile Tackles to pass protect in a formation where the QB is so far back. You need great WR's to get open quickly for the Qb to get the ball out. We have neither.

So why not incorporate some other philosophies which are knows to be effective with a bum RT, a young QB, and relatively inexperienced WR's? This would be a variety of screens, 3 step drops, PA, and an offense built on running the ball even if it means 3 and out sometimes. We aren't doing any of that.

You guys want to hammer on the whole "switching systems crap." This stuff is in the playbook. I guarantee it. These players learned this crap in high school. It is the simplest offensive systems in the world that make up the base of every playbook. The reason we do not use them is because Daboll refuses to break from the game plan. He watched film, devised a strategy, and felt that his approach would be effective. Fine. But round about the end of the 3rd quarter if your "strategy" is not working maybe you should break from it and react to the defense so maybe you can "grab the wheel."

Please please please go listen to Daboll's Press conference. This guy is an ego maniac. I am not totally sure about that but I see it.

He was asked a question about the HB's and possibly missing Lewis. Whould it effect the game plan.

His answer was no absolutely not every one of them should be able to do the same thing. The same runs. ect ect

....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Really?

He really expects Jerome Harrison to run the ball as effectively through the middle as Jamal.

He really wouldn't try to play to the strengths of his players. Jerome Harrison is a counter back. Use the counter, use the pitch, use the sweep, run him through the middle ONCE you force them to set the edges. Harrison is also an excellent screen back, the use of PA would open up the defense ect ect ect. In order to play a good defense you have to open the playbook. You have to force them to cover certain areas and then attack other ones. This guy is an idiot. I may sound like a complete jerk for saying that and that's fine, I'll take the heat.

This is a small example but if you get football, you see how serious this is. This shows an underlying philosophy in his character. DO it, it's not my fault, do it. I am infallible. You should be able to run MY PLAYS!!! That is suicide for a coach ESPECIALLY and Offensive one. He may be an absolute genius. If he does not change his attitude and philosophy and become adaptable he will sink MANY careers.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CJD,

after listening to dabol's press conferance and his response to the running back situation I absolutely agree with CJD that he needs to be fired as he does not understand how to run an entire offense and should go back to being a QB coach.

i understand his point that you want to execute the run plays that work best against your opponent but you also have to then take that next step and say which of these plays work for the RB's we have. Then if you say none of them then you simply have to run the plays you know your guys can execute the best to hopefully get some success that way.

If the offense don't start to click soon its gonna get real ugly in c-town i know that much.

quote:

Just wondering when it is going to cross your minds that changing coaches, management, and players is precisely why we continue to stink every year?

Firmly in your corner on this one. I mean does anyone here actually knows what has to go into a NEW Offense for the end result to come out smooth and get a great flow going?

I'm sure there is a learning process for Daboll and mistakes will be made. But heck Cam or the Ravens is still learning...every coach who coaches continues to learn!

But we have a relatively new QB along with the New playbood, along with a new Center, RG n RT, along with a New TE along with a new 2nd and 3rd WR along with a new 3rd down back (sometimes as Davis was injured).

It ain't working - lets fire Daboll and start over. Not that ain't the ticket...lets fire Mangini and start everything totally over including that Marriage of HC n GM which we never had before.

Fan dissatisfaction over the lack of flow of a new offense with many new players after 2 games can be expected. But the fact that we have had 10 years of struggle is no reason to start pointing fingers SO SOON into this TEAM and start tossing the rope over the limb and picking our sacrifices.

Not saying to be happy over losing. But its not an excuse to be irrational either!

JMHO

Fans want that overnight success that so many other teams are experiencing. Why cant the browns get that?

quote:

Fans want that overnight success that so many other teams are experiencing. Why cant the browns get that?

Understand that...my best guess at why some - why others do n don't. A lot has to be in the right place at the right time.

You catch a team at the right time you can feed off of the Positives and catch fire. You can catch a team at the wrong time and just end up digging holes.

Not making excuses but providing a possible reason on Why a team like Denver will be 2-0 while we are 0-2...when in the long run, we will prove to be the better team.

Right now they are riding high and have an advantage - us well from all that I've read from coaches n players - we don't have a LOW within, no give up. But its tough to lose and now our next test is probably against one of the most physical teams in the NFL!

If I was a betting man (which I'm not) I'd be taking us with the spread.

I think we are ready for some positives. Hey I wish we played the Bengals and have them real flat in their opener and even losing on a last ditch effort get a passed miraculously tipped high into the air right in our WRs hands and runs it in for a last second TD to win????

Instead we played the Vikings... yeah no sometimes there are other variables involved than US SUCKING n THEY DON'T...

JMHO

Listening to Daboll presser (Sept 25th)...

HIS "plug and play" approach disturbs me. Like CJD has stated about the HB's, Harrison can't do the same things Lewis can do and vice versa. Expecting them too is assinine.

Watch the Patriots. They rotate 4 running backs. All with different styles, different strengths. They use them accordingly with the plays called.

Daboll has alot to learn and the biggest thing is his players strengths and how to use them. This is the reason this offense is non existent in my mind.

BTW, I loved Rob Ryan's presser, he holds himself accountable! He blames the loss (Denver)on 1 bad max pressure play he called. I have alot of respect for him as a coach.

quote:

LOL on the BQ thing. I succinctly remember you and others bad-mouthing DA before the first game was over.

Really? After DA's first game back in 2006 you remember me bad mouthing DA? You're misremembering man. What I remember is after that season a lot of us thought DA should get a chance to win the job while YOU insisted Frye was the man and DA couldn't play. Another instance of you judging a QB after a couple starts.

quote:

Originally posted by daytnabacker:
Listening to Daboll presser (Sept 25th)...

HIS "plug and play" approach disturbs me. Like CJD has stated about the HB's, Harrison can't do the same things Lewis can do and vice versa. Expecting them too is assinine.

Watch the Patriots. They rotate 4 running backs. All with different styles, different strengths. They use them accordingly with the plays called.

Daboll has alot to learn and the biggest thing is his players strengths and how to use them. This is the reason this offense is non existent in my mind.

BTW, I loved Rob Ryan's presser, he holds himself accountable! He blames the loss (Denver)on 1 bad max pressure play he called. I have alot of respect for him as a coach.

The Patriots have an established system. It's been installed for YEARS. OC's come and go, players come and go, but the system stays the same. So players are indoctrinated right out of college to play in that system. We JUST installed our Offense. DURING a QB competition.
It's unfair to compare yet. Give it some time.

quote:

Originally posted by Spiritbro77:

quote:

Originally posted by daytnabacker:
Listening to Daboll presser (Sept 25th)...

HIS "plug and play" approach disturbs me. Like CJD has stated about the HB's, Harrison can't do the same things Lewis can do and vice versa. Expecting them too is assinine.

Watch the Patriots. They rotate 4 running backs. All with different styles, different strengths. They use them accordingly with the plays called.

Daboll has alot to learn and the biggest thing is his players strengths and how to use them. This is the reason this offense is non existent in my mind.

BTW, I loved Rob Ryan's presser, he holds himself accountable! He blames the loss (Denver)on 1 bad max pressure play he called. I have alot of respect for him as a coach.

The Patriots have an established system. It's been installed for YEARS. OC's come and go, players come and go, but the system stays the same. So players are indoctrinated right out of college to play in that system. We JUST installed our Offense. DURING a QB competition.
It's unfair to compare yet. Give it some time.

Daboll ran the Stupidcat twice from the 3 with a RB getting 5 yards per pop.

Last week he ran Harrison inside. then on the next play ran Lewis outside.

HE ran 0 PA passes against Minnesota.

He ran the ball from the 6 out of a passing formation (ie. worst blockers on the field)

It has NOTHING to do with a new system and everything to do with an inept moron calling the plays.

Again, and it bears repeating, I will defend Daboll by saying the right side of the o-line is a complete disaster, the tightends other than Heiden cannot block anyone, and our number two, three, and four receivers, other than Furrey are new and unproven.

On the flip side, the fact remains that Daboll had three halfs and a full week to prepare for a five man rush. Daboll made no changes at the half against the Vikings except to go to the hurry-up offense but ran the same plays. He did suceed running up the middle until the interception. It is obvious Denver scouted that game as they used the same defense.

I am not sure what the problem is but I prefer a coordinator who thinks on his feet and can change plays mid-stream. These guys are professionals and I am sure they can run a play they may not have practiced all week if ever. To beat the five man rush you exploit the middle of the field. Quick slants, screens, traps, and to keep the defense honest, throw deep down the sideline into single coverage. The key is simple, the o-line must block like their lives depended on it and allow BQ to do quick three step drops withhout a defender in his face with their hands up. Finally, roll-outs and reverses while risky can get you many yards or simply waste a down if you have a second and short scenario.

Daboll, if you are reading this I am sure you know this. Are you trying to be unpredictable by being predictable? A word of advice, that usually gets a guy in your position fired. Better to lose trying every bullet in your arsenal than to die without pulling the trigger.

i agree 120%

quote:

Originally posted by AirGuard:
Again, and it bears repeating, I will defend Daboll by saying the right side of the o-line is a complete disaster, .

So the right side of the line caused us to run the wildcat twice inside the 3?

It caused us to run Harrison up the middle followed by Lewis outside?

It caused us to not run even 1 play action against Minny?

It caused us to go into the shotgun for the entire Q 1 vs. Minny?

NO - IT DIDN'T,DABOLL'S IGNORANCE CAUSED ALL OF THOSE THINGS!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by eotab:

quote:

Just wondering when it is going to cross your minds that changing coaches, management, and players is precisely why we continue to stink every year?

Firmly in your corner on this one. I mean does anyone here actually knows what has to go into a NEW Offense for the end result to come out smooth and get a great flow going?

I'm sure there is a learning process for Daboll and mistakes will be made. But heck Cam or the Ravens is still learning...every coach who coaches continues to learn!

But we have a relatively new QB along with the New playbood, along with a new Center, RG n RT, along with a New TE along with a new 2nd and 3rd WR along with a new 3rd down back (sometimes as Davis was injured).

It ain't working - lets fire Daboll and start over. Not that ain't the ticket...lets fire Mangini and start everything totally over including that Marriage of HC n GM which we never had before.

Fan dissatisfaction over the lack of flow of a new offense with many new players after 2 games can be expected. But the fact that we have had 10 years of struggle is no reason to start pointing fingers SO SOON into this TEAM and start tossing the rope over the limb and picking our sacrifices.

Not saying to be happy over losing. But its not an excuse to be irrational either!

JMHO

I generally agree with the spirit of this remark as well. And normally, I side one hundred percent on the intelligence of eotab's philosophies.
However....

...in this particular case...

We are literally better off cutting out the cancer now. Daboll is truly beyond the 'inexpeienced' excuse. He does not have the temperment for the trade. It's one thing to know football like a science. And it's a whole 'nother thing to be a whimp.

We have a sissy driving our offensive bus, and not only is does he leave us wanting as a producive offense - he also lacks the vision to acknowledge his shortcommings.

I'd rather substitute his 'x's and o's' philosphies with a 'Im taking your lunch and eating it. RIGHT in front of you' meanstreak.

This is going to be a serious issue for years to come, because he lacks the personality to pin his ears back and bust somebody's lip open. He plays scared. Not conservatice - scared.

Having said all of that - I dont know how any outfit can gain continuity without keeping the same pieces of the puzzle in place for years on end. It's absolutely necessary to construct a decent team.

I think in this case, we just made a lot of terrible decisions in collecting our personell. From the f/o all the way to the draft.

Mangina is more x's and o's, Ryan is 'give me your lunch money' we need an o/c who can smell one part blood in 100 million parts of water.

Let the H/C be the scientist. The play callers need to be meat eaters.

I think we're very literally screwed for quite awhile.

*sigh*

I love the Browns, and Im thankful to the Lerner family.... but I wish they were a little bit 'meaner' and much more patient before they set us back so often with knee-jerk reactions.

Shoot me if you wanna for saying this - but I think Crennel would have had a better shot this year than this non-sense...

On a sidenote....

Brady looks horrible. Mack looks like a girlscout. St. Clair looks like Opah Winfrey. And Shanahan look's like another very missed opportunity.

Ugh.

At least we all suffer together.

The end.

I hate to say it but it is more of a combination of Daboll and Quinn. They both are making the wrong decisions or in Quinn`s case; taking to long to make a decision because he does not have enough faith to make the play. Quinn needs to step up and take chances and Daboll has to start making the right calls because he has not done that so far.

While I know that play calling isn't an issue and I am a big supporter of coaches.......I can't help but wonder who the Brady Quinn lovers will blame if Daboll is fired and Quinn continues to suck?

Mangini for the qb competition?
Mangini for not being a player's coach?
Kok for not assembling any talent?
DA for "lingering" in the background?
The rest of the players for sucking so bad that their guy isn't getting a fair shot.

You know...........this reminds me of when y'all ran Bruce Arians out of town because so many loved Timid. Hmmmmmmmmm.......Timid never made another roster and is out of football and Arians just won a Super Bowl as OC for the Steelers.

I really despise people who put ONE SINGLE player above the good of the team. And you can rattle on and on, but that is what this is about. You guys don't understand play calling. You only know this......if it works---it's a great call and if it fails---it's a terrible call.

Cut the crap and start looking at the real blame. It's the players and Quinn is front and center.

I think everyone is being a little tough on what Daboll says in his press conference.

What should his response be to the playbook when JL isn't in there? "Harrison goes down too easy and can't run between the tackles. So when harrison is in there we are going to throw the ball to him and maybe put in a couple of outside runs"

Then regarding Davis "Davis will be available for this game but he isn't really 100%. He has a lot of trouble cutting back on his runs right now. So we are going to need to run him straight up the middle only. He probably won't be effective in the passing game either"

Now that would be a good answer, wouldn't it.

"We are all figuring out what Daboll wants out of the system." - Braylon Edwards from Zac Jackson interview

Again...what is our offensive identity? Leave all of the game-specific stuff in the garbage. We still need to find our bread and butter and get much better at it.

quote:

Originally posted by Versatile Dog:
While I know that play calling isn't an issue

Right - it was brilliant playcalling to:

Run the Stupidcat 2 times in a row inside the 3.
Not run a PA pass against Minny.

To run Harrison up the middle - then on the next play run Lewis to the outside - Daboll sure knows his players strengths!

Coming out in shotgun for nearly all Q1 vs. Minny with a rookie center playing against the most dangerous tandem of DL in the NFL.

You love Daboll - why not put him in the HOF? His playcalling, according to you - is brillant. Of course, you said the same about Carthon and Chud.

quote:

You know...........this reminds me of when y'all ran Bruce Arians out of town because so many loved Timid. Hmmmmmmmmm.......Timid never made another roster and is out of football and Arians just won a Super Bowl as OC for the Steelers.

You mean the guy who left us and became a WR coach again? The guy who's QB - Ben Roethlesberger - calls 40% of his own plays (article in SI interviewing a few NFL QBs)? That OC?

quote:

I really despise people who put ONE SINGLE player above the good of the team.

I despise OC's who refuse to run the football, who line up near the goal line and run out of passing formations, who utilize the shotgun other than 3rd and long and in the 2 minute drill and people who blame "execution" as an excuse for horrid playcalling. If you don't believe the playcalling is an issue - then everything I pointed out in the playcalling you deem brilliant. You can't have it both ways.

quote:

You guys don't understand play calling. You only know this......if it works---it's a great call and if it fails---it's a terrible call.

No, I understand it quite well. I understand that when your RB is getting 5 YPC you hand him the ball - ESPECIALLY inside the 5. I understand that at the 6 - you don't line up in a pass formation and then run it - utilizing the worst blockers you have instead of the best. I understand that you don't run your speed back up the middle and then remove him and stretch the D with your power back.

You used that same tired "if it worked it was a good call" BS when Carthon let Vickers throw a pass on 3rd down against Carolina a few years ago.

Yes, currently Quinn isn't helping matters and I've blasted him all year - but with this idiot OC it ain't gonna matter who's under center.

quote:

We are literally better off cutting out the cancer now.

In this particular case...why cause we are Browns fans and that is what we do...form the posse and find that hanging tree. Calling it politically correct terms like "CANCER" don't make it Good.

You site as your case basically...you want less scientific, perfection in X's O's and just get a In Your Face - Don't care what you run we will dictate to you.

You can do that in HS and College cause you can build teams that will be just Man for Man bigger, stronger than your opponents. But you cannot do that in the NFL. Not without the science.

Btw - can you show me a successful Neanderthal OC in the NFL. I can name many, many Scientific OCs over the last 30 years...actually its quite easy. Just take any successful Offense...over the years and its one of the Scientist OC's running it from Walsh to the now Saints offense...all Scientist.

If you mean you wish to have the 2000 offense of the Ravens...and think we can win a SB like they did...sorry. From Weis, Holmgren, just really any GREAT OFFENSE over the past 30 seasons was ran by one of the Scientist guys you are Pooh-Poohing and stating cut that cancer out. Thats what you think is a Cancer??? Intelligence????

Sorry but your argument is weak - no insult intended personally ...the insult is on your theory.

Vers...please make a point without bringing in BQ and the fans who like him. Glass house looking outside in. It cheapens your very good points.

Actually the competition has been one of my pet pieve...and I know you know football, It was not a positive for implementing a new offense. It retarded the Gelling period we had in TC and Preseason.

Daboll...hasn't been bad at all in his play calling.

And just cause there was a possible mistake....Soup just cause it is very very plausible that Wildcat on the 3-1 yard line was not that good of an idea. It doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.

And the 2nd Wildcat call was said to be on Mangini as he thought we had a vulnerable Missmatch just off tackle. In his presser he stated that was his call....not Daboll's.

It don't make anyone here correct in all the other areas siting Daboll was wrong doing this n that.

And Vers is correct...I was one who was calling for Arians head...not correct for my reasons being my LOVE for one player (Couch). But I was WRONG for my reasons. His philosophy was smart...He was Scientific...And I don't think it was the QB that was the problem...it was the OL. But I soon realized Arians was a very good OC....The I personally like to grow is not repeat my mistakes. I cannot get a complete READ on Daboll from his first two games...but I don't see any shade of Ineptitude on his part being the problem.

JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by eotab:
And just cause there was a possible mistake....Soup just cause it is very very plausible that Wildcat on the 3-1 yard line was not that good of an idea. It doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.

I brought up way more than that. If you are going to defend his playcalling, defend all the problems I brought up - not just the one that cost us a TD.

quote:

Originally posted by eotab:

quote:

We are literally better off cutting out the cancer now.

In this particular case...why cause we are Browns fans and that is what we do...form the posse and find that hanging tree. Calling it politically correct terms like "CANCER" don't make it Good.

You site as your case basically...you want less scientific, perfection in X's O's and just get a In Your Face - Don't care what you run we will dictate to you.

You can do that in HS and College cause you can build teams that will be just Man for Man bigger, stronger than your opponents. But you cannot do that in the NFL. Not without the science.

Btw - can you show me a successful Neanderthal OC in the NFL. I can name many, many Scientific OCs over the last 30 years...actually its quite easy. Just take any successful Offense...over the years and its one of the Scientist OC's running it from Walsh to the now Saints offense...all Scientist.

If you mean you wish to have the 2000 offense of the Ravens...and think we can win a SB like they did...sorry. From Weis, Holmgren, just really any GREAT OFFENSE over the past 30 seasons was ran by one of the Scientist guys you are Pooh-Poohing and stating cut that cancer out. Thats what you think is a Cancer??? Intelligence????

Sorry but your argument is weak - no insult intended personally ...the insult is on your theory.

Vers...please make a point without bringing in BQ and the fans who like him. Glass house looking outside in. It cheapens your very good points.

Actually the competition has been one of my pet pieve...and I know you know football, It was not a positive for implementing a new offense. It retarded the Gelling period we had in TC and Preseason.

Daboll...hasn't been bad at all in his play calling.

And just cause there was a possible mistake....Soup just cause it is very very plausible that Wildcat on the 3-1 yard line was not that good of an idea. It doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.

And the 2nd Wildcat call was said to be on Mangini as he thought we had a vulnerable Missmatch just off tackle. In his presser he stated that was his call....not Daboll's.

It don't make anyone here correct in all the other areas siting Daboll was wrong doing this n that.

And Vers is correct...I was one who was calling for Arians head...not correct for my reasons being my LOVE for one player (Couch). But I was WRONG for my reasons. His philosophy was smart...He was Scientific...And I don't think it was the QB that was the problem...it was the OL. But I soon realized Arians was a very good OC....The I personally like to grow is not repeat my mistakes. I cannot get a complete READ on Daboll from his first two games...but I don't see any shade of Ineptitude on his part being the problem.

JMHO

As always, good post Eo.

quote:

I brought up way more than that. If you are going to defend his playcalling, defend all the problems I brought up - not just the one that cost us a TD.

Sorry...the reason I brought up that one...it was the only correct point ya did make I wasn't looking to tear you apart. Cause then you would be mad at me like you will be now...lol

quote:

Originally posted by eotab:

quote:

I brought up way more than that. If you are going to defend his playcalling, defend all the problems I brought up - not just the one that cost us a TD.

Sorry...the reason I brought up that one...it was the only correct point ya did make I wasn't looking to tear you apart. Cause then you would be mad at me like you will be now...lol

Then tear me apart.

2nd and goal from the 6. You run out of a passing formation? Why? If anything, you pass out of the running formation on playaction to your TE or FB who'll be wide-open. Or run it with your best blockers in. Go ahead - defend the call "if they'd have all executed their blocks it would have been a TD. He tried to outsmart them." Sorry - wrong answer. this is the NFL - impose your will.

Now defend not utilizing a play action pass against Minnesota when your RB is getting 5 yards per carry.

Now defend the shotgun for nearly all of Q1 - if you defend it - you'd be a hypocrite. Why? Because you blasted it too because you hate the shotgun because of how easy it is to defend the run out of it.

Now defend running Harrison up the middle followed by putting in Lewis to run wide and stretch the defense.

Tell me why his playcalling is brilliant.

As I stated - 100% correct for the 3rd OC in a row - the playcalling is GARBAGE.

The big arm QB comes in:

Check down
Backside screen
check down for an interception.

BRain Daboll is the most worthless coach this team has ever seen. I wish we had Carthon back - what's that tell you?

Fire him now.

I am almost done with this organization

quote:

Originally posted by CJD:

quote:

Originally posted by azdawg:

quote:

Originally posted by BpG:
It's poor talent and execution, not play calling.

PERIOD. End of discussion (for me anyway).

I agree, our talent level is poor, and when that poor talent cannot execute, then you get the team we see on Sundays. Its pretty simple IMO, poor drafting for the past 10 years= a bad football team. Really assess this offense, Daboll is working with a rookie center, half of an O-line, No RB's, one playmaker (Braylon), not too mention trying to teach Cribbs how to be an NFL WR, blocking TE's, ect...ect...ect...
Oh I almost forgot, two 2nd round pick WR's who apparently are going to need 3 years to develope, no Percy Harvin in that bunch, what do you expect, really???

Let me answer this strictly form an opinionated perspective.

Josh Cribbs is an incredible athlete. When you have incredible athletes you do whatever you can to get them the ball. You mean to tell me we could not maybe do a better job of that?

Mack certainly is a hazard as well as the right side of the line. So why on earth would you not implement some 3 step drops as a MAJOR part of your offensive gameplan. If you know the QB is not going to have all day why use a formation which is known to be extremely complicated for an O-line to protect from. See the shotgun is very very useful and if you want to make it a base then fine. But you cannot expect St. Clair to protect from this formation much and certainly not without help. You need agile Tackles to pass protect in a formation where the QB is so far back. You need great WR's to get open quickly for the Qb to get the ball out. We have neither.

So why not incorporate some other philosophies which are knows to be effective with a bum RT, a young QB, and relatively inexperienced WR's? This would be a variety of screens, 3 step drops, PA, and an offense built on running the ball even if it means 3 and out sometimes. We aren't doing any of that.

You guys want to hammer on the whole "switching systems crap." This stuff is in the playbook. I guarantee it. These players learned this crap in high school. It is the simplest offensive systems in the world that make up the base of every playbook. The reason we do not use them is because Daboll refuses to break from the game plan. He watched film, devised a strategy, and felt that his approach would be effective. Fine. But round about the end of the 3rd quarter if your "strategy" is not working maybe you should break from it and react to the defense so maybe you can "grab the wheel."

Thank you. I seriously know a few high school coaches who would be better.

Daboll..ya done son!!

When are they going to realize that Cribbs is not a receiver.Get Robiski in there,at least he can run a route.LOve Cribbs as a returner,just frustrated beyond belief right now!

Jesus soup.............you will never get it.

quote:

I wish we had Carthon back - what's that tell you?

That you were wrong about Carthon...and probably Daboll...

Maybe we should actually keep an offensive system for more than 2 years...

quote:

Originally posted by eotab:

quote:

I wish we had Carthon back - what's that tell you?

That you were wrong about Carthon...and probably Daboll...

Maybe we should actually keep an offensive system for more than 2 years...

Carthon is no longer an OC, Chud is no longer an OC and Arians went back to WR coach for a couple years before becoming an OC again.

Once again - you and Vers are avoiding the points I brought up. Just keep telling me I don't get it and ignoring the points I've made. We stillhave no identity. This tem hasn't had one in 10 years. The OC lacks an identity - therefore the team doesn't have one.

Go ahead - dismantle the points - each one from my previous points in the first 2 games. I'll be awaiting your response.