Time for Browns to admit mistake with Mangini

Might not be fair, but Mangini's time is up

By Patrick McManamon
Beacon Journal sports columnist

Published on Monday, Oct 26, 2009
CLEVELAND: The Browns have reached the time for a difficult decision regarding the future of Eric Mangini: There shouldn't be one.

Sunday was another humiliating loss, this one to the Green Bay Packers, at home. The 31-3 final does not do it justice.

The Browns were abysmal.

Yes, a bunch of guys had the flu during the week, and the flu stinks.

But so do the Browns — now 1-6 and playing worse.

The Packers were playing without two starters on the offensive line. They found a way to play well, to compete, to win.

Which is what mentally tough teams do.

The Browns find ways to lose, to botch games, to turn a loyal-to-a-fault fan following dispassionate and blase.
Coach Eric Mangini did not deserve the personal shots taken at him in Rolling Stone last week, but professionally, he has done nothing with this team except make it worse.

The Browns ended last season
playing their third- and fourth-string quarterbacks. This season's team has its roster, minus the normal number of injuries. It's not overly beaten up, and it's not an expansion team.

Yet it's the worst Browns team since the jubilant return in 1999.

This is Mangini's team. It's his approach, coaching staff and roster — with 23 new players on opening day (and 10 former New York Jets now on the team).

The Browns have been humiliated on the road in Baltimore and Denver, embarrassed at home by the Minnesota Vikings and the Packers. They lost by three to the Cincinnati Bengals then won by three in Buffalo.

Imagine — the highlight of the season is a three-point win over the Bills, when the starting quarterback completed two passes.

The two quarterbacks have regressed to the point that they don't resemble the guys who played the previous two seasons. All the Browns have done with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn is destroy their trade value.

Quinn was yanked after 10 quarters. The past 12 quarters, Anderson has gone 23-for-70, yet during a blowout loss Sunday, Quinn never looked for his helmet.

Is there any clearer indication that he has absolutely no future with the Browns?

Go down the roster, especially to the places Mangini made changes. The right side of the line? No better. Neither are the other spots where Mangini brought in ''his'' guys — at receiver, tight end, safety, inside linebacker or defensive end. Not to mention offensive coordinator.

Too, consider the teams that former coaches Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel took over. None had a Shaun Rogers at nose tackle, a Josh Cribbs, a Joe Thomas, an Eric Steinbach.

Mangini did not take over a 12-win team, but he also did not take over one that should lose by 28 at home.

After the loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers eight days ago, their offensive coordinator, Bruce Arians, said the Steelers noticed the Browns like to blitz the safeties on first and second down. If you protect, Arians said, you can make big plays by running guys through the vacated area.

Guess what the Packers did in the first quarter? It saw safety Abram Elam blitz, then sent Donald Driver to Elam's area for a 71-yard touchdown that featured yet more missed tackles.

The players can say they're playing hard for their coach.

The evidence isn't there.

The Browns can keep hoping that things will get better and the ''foundation'' is being built.

If they do, they're fooling themselves.

It's difficult and painful to admit a mistake, but coaches have been replaced sooner.

The Browns and owner Randy Lerner need to start considering this possibility. Seriously.

Is it fair to Mangini? Probably not. He's trying, he's working. He doesn't want to lose. But it's not working. The Browns could win next Sunday, yes, but what does that make them? Two-and-six.

And is it any less fair than it was to Quinn to have 10 quarters to prove himself? Mangini wanted this system where he decides personnel. It's his show, and his record.

Most important, though, is perpetuating this situation fair to the fans who have to watch this nonsense week after week after week? To give them this kind of effort and play after they've spent so much of their hard-earned money?

If the Browns think they have problems now, wait until December, when it's cold, and 25,000 are in the stands and games are blacked out locally. And wait until they start selling tickets for 2010.

The only thing worse than making a mistake is not admitting it.

Continuing a mistake ''just because'' only compounds the mistake.

The Browns' defense has been terrible all season, but coordinator Rob Ryan might be able to reach the players in a way Mangini hasn't. He's done nothing to earn the job, except be the best option on the staff to be an interim.

Heck, it can't be worse.

It's a tough decision for Lerner, because he personally hired Mangini. But this team has gotten worse — in every way — and there's no evidence short of a 6-3 win in Buffalo that the team believes in what it's being told.

Nor is there a shred of evidence that it will get better.

The time has come to recognize a mistake, make a tough decision and start over again next season. It's another restart and that's one more too many, but maybe it will produce better results and some long-lost continuity.

What's taking place is simply not working.

Link

I agree we need a coach that has some head coaching exp, and at this point ill take anyone. We need a leader not another Butch Davis which is what Magini feels like to me. I would have rather seen Crennel stay than this.

I also think many NFL teams are learning that basic simple football is not going to cut it in the NFL and unless we start to realize that we will have a record like we do. Open things up get 4-5 WRs on the field and lets throw some deep passes.

If we would get rid of Mangini this season, would we have to continue paying his salary until his 3 year contract is up?

I think that could mean that next year we would be paying for three total head coaches, Crennel, Mangini and whoever they would bring in. Not to mention still paying for Savage.

It seems like the one thing our owner can actually do is pay for his mistakes. We can pay Butch, Romeo, and Savage. So he may as well pay Mangini, cut his losses, and fix this thing before it spirals so out of control that there will be nothing left to save.

It's time for Lerner to come out of the shadows where he's been hiding, and show some leadership and give direction to this franchise. That, or sell it to someone who can.

Admit that hiring Mangini was a mistake. It was a knee-jerk. He never vetted the coaches the way he should have, never had the gm in place first like he should have, etc. etc.

I'm thoroughly disgusted.

why would we fire Mangini??? the press are just after him because they dont get inside info.

Most of the problem is/was here before he got here. He should of got rid of both Quinn and Anderson before the year started. The controversy stayed though which was his mistake. Hes coached all of 7 games. He needs at least 3 MORE years before we pull the plug on him if we see no improvement by then. He brought much needed dicipline to this team. We were the least diciplined team last year with I believe the most penaltys in the NFL (cant find the stats on that). Last I heard we are one of the 4 least penalized teams in the NFL this year.

The guy can coach he needs more time to fix this disaster, firing and hiring another coach will not fix the problem it will make matters worse. We will turn over most the roster all over again and have the same results. Mangini NEEDS MORE TIME.

We need a HC with Headcoaching experience??? LOL WE HAVE THAT in Eric Mangini!!!! He has 2 winning seasons out of 3, he got fired from New York because Brett Favre cost them the season and barely missed the playoffs.

Many players past and present have sided with Mangini and say hes a GREAT coach. Brett Favre is one of those people. Dqwell is another. Dqwell is very high on Eric Mangini and has stated so publicly many times.

Mangini needs gone tonight and he can take the other two stooges with him!!

Sorry BrownsFan1988 but this team had talent. Sadly it has been cut or traded away. We dn't need three years to fix this. Look at Miami went 1-15 one year and made the playoff the next. We have a problem picking coaches. We went after the Belicheck/Ravens tree again. Whats that old saying fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. This team has gone from bad to worse to laughingstock. We need a coach who knows the AFC North style of Football. Sadly there are two out there who have won SB and might be looking to be getting back into coaching Cowher and Billick. This team is worse the 99 tenfold. We knew what we had in DA. He was never the answer and should have been let go in 2008. Obviously noone wanted him and the Cowboys played us again with our QB's. Probably made they didn't get a top five pick with the Quinn trade. If we get rid of mangini now the next coach will have 11 draft picks to help with. Mangini brought his guys from the Jets. Do they really look that much better than what we had? Porkchop, Womack are worse than what we had last year. AE get betten like a redheaded stepchild. J Lewis is trying out for Dancing with the Stars. Mangini says we are going to stay with a starter who 1 is the worst QB in the league and 2 has not shown any signs of improvement since 2007(must be still suffering from that concussion). Lets get a real coach, make Marty the GM or Parcells(he always likes a challenge) and get us back to where we belong atop the AFC North.

OMG and u wonder whats wrong with our team!!!!! The reporters are worse than the fans and dont know ish about football!! I admit Mangini has made some mistakes but damn he had nothing to work with!!! Look what he built in NY one of the best Ds and O lines in football!! Give him his 3 yrs and see if we have made progression!!

See you in 2012.

Mangini has coached 7 games now and has only regressed.....funny, he only gave Quinn 2.5 games before he pulled the plug. I'm starting to question whether or not Mangini can learn from his mistakes, seeing that he continues to start Anderson.

I could go either way with firing/keeping Mangini. If Gruden or Cowher had any interest, see ya Mangini. If he stays, Mangini had better nail this draft dead on the nuts !

Fire Mangini? You've got to be kidding. This guy is a complete dope. You cant fire him. What is it with Cleveland media? Are they trying to chase away the only person willing to come to CRAPLAND. Face it people... No one and I mean NO ONE, wants to come here and coach. Why the hell would they? This is argueably the worst franchise in sports at this very minute. What experienced HC would want this on their resume? NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!

So... I for one am for consistancy. Tired of the coaching carosel. Tired of roster turn over after turn over. Complete garbage. We as Browns fans have endured way too much BS over the last decade. Enough already.

I say Randy Lerner goes into hibernation for the next 5 years and then evaluates what Mangini has accomplished, or not.

The only mistake was this clown writing this jump the gun article. The sky is falling PAT!

quote:

Originally posted by clonetrooper:
Sorry BrownsFan1988 but this team had talent. Sadly it has been cut or traded away.

LOL WHO?

Braylon Edwards? He wanted out of here and was purposely dogging it and causing scenes to get traded! If he wasnt gonna get traded he would keep dropping passes on PURPOSE and walk at the end of the year when his contract was up.

Kellen Winslow? Yeah hes done pretty much nothing in Tampa Bay and they got suckered big time into giving him that massive contract. He was either always hurt or creating chaos in the press and locker room. He wont be missed. Tampa is already regretting it.

WE HAD A FLUKE 2007 season against teams worse then us or average at BEST. We lost against every winning team that year. IT WAS A FLUKE. Theres barely any talent here and there barely ever was.

LOL yes lets be even more pitiful and cry Cowher all over again! The LEAGUE was LAUGHING at us, including our rival Steelers. COWHER even laughed about it on Fox or CBS (whichever one he is on) he will never come here. Thats a joke and it makes us look like even bigger fools!

Marty wants nothing to do with this team, all these people the fans cry over want NOTHING to do with the BROWNS. He joked about this himself publicly. He dont wanna come here he said there isnt a chance he would come here, hes retired and enjoying life before he dies. Every coach has been chased out of town before they are allowed time to build a foundation and system to believe in. We are doing it right now to Mangini. Who the hell would want to come here, be happy a winning HC is even here in Cleveland right now, were lucky to have that.

Eric Mangini is who we stick with.

quote:

Originally posted by born2Bbrown:
Fire Mangini? You've got to be kidding. This guy is a complete dope. You cant fire him. What is it with Cleveland media? Are they trying to chase away the only person willing to come to CRAPLAND. Face it people... No one and I mean NO ONE, wants to come here and coach. Why the hell would they? This is argueably the worst franchise in sports at this very minute. What experienced HC would want this on their resume? NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!

So... I for one am for consistancy. Tired of the coaching carosel. Tired of roster turn over after turn over. Complete garbage. We as Browns fans have endured way too much BS over the last decade. Enough already.

I say Randy Lerner goes into hibernation for the next 5 years and then evaluates what Mangini has accomplished, or not.

The only mistake was this clown writing this jump the gun article. The sky is falling PAT!

AMEN we are the same page! Totally agree. Mangini is the way to go end the Headcoaching firing and hiring, its BS and will NEVER fix our problems. You ride it out thats how winners are made!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by BrownsFan1988:

quote:

Originally posted by clonetrooper:
Sorry BrownsFan1988 but this team had talent. Sadly it has been cut or traded away.

LOL WHO?

Braylon Edwards? He wanted out of here and was purposely dogging it and causing scenes to get traded! If he wasnt gonna get traded he would keep dropping passes on PURPOSE and walk at the end of the year when his contract was up.

Kellen Winslow? Yeah hes done pretty much nothing in Tampa Bay and they got suckered big time into giving him that massive contract. He was either always hurt or creating chaos in the press and locker room. He wont be missed. Tampa is already regretting it.

WE HAD A FLUKE 2007 season against teams worse then us or average at BEST. We lost against every winning team that year. IT WAS A FLUKE. Theres barely any talent here and there barely ever was.

LOL yes lets be even more pitiful and cry Cowher all over again! The LEAGUE was LAUGHING at us, including our rival Steelers. COWHER even laughed about it on Fox or CBS (whichever one he is on) he will never come here. Thats a joke and it makes us look like even bigger fools!

Marty wants nothing to do with this team, all these people the fans cry over want NOTHING to do with the BROWNS. Every coach has been chased out of town before they are allowed time to build a foundation and system to believe in. We are doing it right now to Mangini. Who the hell would want to come here, be happy a winning HC is even here in Cleveland right now, were lucky to have that.

Eric Mangini is who we stick with.

I posted just before you and said pretty much the same thing. I have a gift for Randy Lerner. EAR PLUGS.
88 You are right. You know, we have 11 picks next year alone. That should be a decent boost to the Browns roster.

Nothing says coninuity like firing another coach. The writer says that's what he wants but, if they did fire him and get a new coach he would be writing the same article after 7 games next year i'd bet any amount of money on that! I've been a Mangini supporter the whole time and although i'm losing a little faith in him you can't fire him. As someone already said nobody with a good track record is coming here so, whoever thinks that Shanahan, Cowher, Gruden or anyone else like that would come here is fooling themselves. We really have no choice but, to see what he can do for more than 1 year. This team was straight up garbage last year and it takes time to fix it.
People also need to quit bringing up the Dolpins going from 1-15 one year to division title the next. That was an exception not the rule. That hardly ever happens. They also had Pennington, Brown, Williams, a good o-line, and good defensive players. We have nowhere near that talent.

Great article, and man is it true. In years past I have found a few things here and there to be happy about, but this year is horrid. And now I read on the front page that Anderson is still starting? My God i seriously think anyone can do as well as him at this point! Mangidiot must seriously be keeping Quinn from the bonus he would be due, and I hope he files a grievence against him. This team is way worse than last years team even, and I can't remember a year when we had such a big roster turnover. And they are all his guys!!!!
5 years ago when Romeo was hired we all heard "it takes time to build it right, blah,blah,blah" ,and now look at us!! The same BS and we have won a single game and barely at that. I hate to bring this up guys, but the day Butch Davis announced Holcomb as the starter was the worst day in the last ten years for the Cleveland Browns. Our team was on the way up, and that jerk pulled the rug out. I argued it then when I called a 5-11 season(that happened), and I'll argue it now. That day got us where we are today and no one can tell me any different. Please Randy, hire someone like Marty, or Bernie, and sit your rich butt in your luxury box and watch. If this team gets much better in the next 2-3 years I will be shocked.
Good thing I'll be headed to Iraq in December and I won't have to feel the sting of yet another january without my Browns. I'll be headed back home for Thanksgiving,and going to the Lions game, only because I don't get to go very often cause I live in TN. Look for me, I'll be the guy with the FIRE RANDY LERNER sign, and I don't care if we win every game from here to then.

I was thinking last game that it's just seemed this season like we're always playing with only 10 on the field. I occurred to me that that perhaps that is largely a function of coaching and scheme. Poor coaching and scheme. When I watch I just can't seem to figure out what is SO wrong. There is talent out there. It does beg the conclusion.

quote:

Originally posted by BrownsFan1988:
why would we fire Mangini??? the press are just after him because they dont get inside info.

Most of the problem is/was here before he got here. He should of got rid of both Quinn and Anderson before the year started. The controversy stayed though which was his mistake. Hes coached all of 7 games. He needs at least 3 MORE years before we pull the plug on him if we see no improvement by then. He brought much needed dicipline to this team. We were the least diciplined team last year with I believe the most penaltys in the NFL (cant find the stats on that). Last I heard we are one of the 4 least penalized teams in the NFL this year.

The guy can coach he needs more time to fix this disaster, firing and hiring another coach will not fix the problem it will make matters worse. We will turn over most the roster all over again and have the same results. Mangini NEEDS MORE TIME.

We need a HC with Headcoaching experience??? LOL WE HAVE THAT in Eric Mangini!!!! He has 2 winning seasons out of 3, he got fired from New York because Brett Favre cost them the season and barely missed the playoffs.

Many players past and present have sided with Mangini and say hes a GREAT coach. Brett Favre is one of those people. Dqwell is another. Dqwell is very high on Eric Mangini and has stated so publicly many times.

I see a little where your defense of Mangini is coming from. But you do mention less penalties a lot which I do agree with. BUT, we are getting blown out every game, with absolutely no effort! This is the NFL (any team can win on and given Sunday?) Ha, not Mangini's team. This is a joke, if we give him 3 more seasons, then 3 more seasons wasted. Period.

im so scared of mankok drafting this off season. He didnt add any difference makers and now its showin.

Get any coach who runs a 4-3 D. The 3-4 sucks and I'm tired of waiting for a pass rush. Draft Mccoy or Suh in the first.

DE Williams
DT Rogers
DT Mccoy or Suh
DE Wimbley

Ok, so we pull the leash on Eric and his regime after 7 or 8 games because we do not see progress. Then we hire another coach to finish the season, and they release half the players to bring in guys they want. Then we still lose, and do not improve for the remaining 7 or 8 games of the season, so we fire that guy, he gets rid of half the players and coaches to bring in his guys, so we lose the first 6 games next year, so we fire that guy, he brings in 20 new players to replace the guys players before him, and we lose the next 5 games. with 5 games left in the season, we fire that guy, and the next guy brings his favs, and we lose the next 4 gamnes and have no coach for the last game of the season (because noone wanted to coach for 1 game). So we hire another guy in the offseason again and he brings back the 4-3 d, and needs his style players to be successful, but we lose the first 3 games, and again, the fans call for his head so he is fired and we hire abnother guy who rebuilds the team, and we lose the next 3 games. The fans plan a stadium roit, so that coach is fired and another brought in, who brings another style of play and leadership and replaces another 10 players with others he likes better, do I go on? Or do you get the point?

I think we just don't have any talent -

1) Every opposing offensive line kills our defensive line, and every opposing defensive line kills our offensive line.

2) Our DBs suck - can't cover - can't tackle.

3) Both our QBs suck.

4) We never draft LBs from schools that already play the 3-4 defense causing our guys to have a learning curve.

5) The talent we did have (K2, BE) were too immature and cost us with so many penalties and attitudes - they weren't worth it.

Did you see all the times that the Packers were laughing at us on the sidelines? They knew we are a joke. It is not the coach - it's the players.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by born2Bbrown:
Fire Mangini? You've got to be kidding. This guy is a complete dope. You cant fire him. What is it with Cleveland media? Are they trying to chase away the only person willing to come to CRAPLAND. Face it people... No one and I mean NO ONE, wants to come here and coach. Why the hell would they? This is argueably the worst franchise in sports at this very minute. What experienced HC would want this on their resume? NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE]

I agree with this even though I don't consider the Browns the worst franchise in sports, but they aren't far from the bottom.

The lovefest for brady quinn and dislike for mangini's secrecy brought this article on. I have no interest in pot stirrers like Pat M.

At least try and be somewhat realistic. I think most browns fans will reluctantly admit that Mangini is doing a good job within the next two years.

I'm gonna repost something I posted in the 2010 Coaching FA's thread. This should tell you all what I really think.

quote:

Originally posted by ryry2897:
The entire coaching argument is a moot point. The point, as stated in the "Randy Lerner Must Go" thread is simple: Lerner is not doing things the right way, and he's the absolute TOP of this organization.

1)He's NOT hiring a team president (which if he really DOES care about winning, he should throw as much money as Bill Parcells wants at him to get him out of Miami and up here)

2)He's NOT letting said team president (That he's NOT hiring) hire a GM that is one of HIS guys, that could honestly build something called continuity, which is something we as a team have not had since we came back from oblivion.

3)He's NOT letting said GM (who was NOT hired by said President who was NOT hired by Lerner himself) hire a coach who will work with the program and get this team something called an IDENTITY, which is again something we have not had since we came back from oblivion.

4)He is NOT letting said coach (who was NOT hired by said GM, who was NOT hired by said President who was NOT hired by Lerner) bring in HIS assistants which would further give us CONTINUITY and IDENTITY, which is yet again something we have not had since we came back from oblivion.

Anybody get the picture yet? Until Lerner brings in a dedicated football guy for his team president (again, throw money at Parcells, or hell throw money at Marty or Ozzie, or even Cowher, if he doesn't wanna coach, make him the team president) this entire idea of who is going to be the next coach is completely moot.

That being said, Chucky is my choice...why? Because the guy has something that only one coach we have had since we came back from oblivion, has ever had. Emotion. Look at the coaches we've had, please.

Chris Palmer - Cool headed, calm, confident, but no fire = 5-27 record, out after 2 years.

Butch Davis - God forbid, I think the guy has no brain at times, but at least he was a fiery coach who motivated his players and coached them up rather than just standing on the sidelines stone faced. = 24-35 record, but the telling thing...A PLAYOFF birth. Forced to resign in year 3.

Romeo Crennel - Okay, he had the one year of 10-6, only our second winning season since we came back from oblivion, but he was widely regarded as a coach who didn't put any fire into his team, didn't coach them up and was notorious for being soft on his players. = 24-40 overall record. Fired at the end of season 3.

Eric Mangini - the apple doesn't fall far from the tree does it? Same tree Romeo came from, same demeanor but apparently he's a disciplinarian. = so far 1-6 as Browns coach, and people already calling for his head.

Now let's look at Jon Gruden

Jon David Gruden (born August 17, 1963 in Sandusky, Ohio) - whoa whoa hold up, he was actually BORN in Ohio? What are the chances that he understands the entire history of the AFC Central/North? Let's move on...Okay he's 100-81 as a head coach. Not the greatest winning percentage but he's something that nobody else we've had as coach can claim. HE'S ABOVE .500! And he has 100 wins...so wait can that mean he has *gulp* EXPERIENCE AS A WINNING NFL HEAD COACH?! Oh wait here's something else...when with the Raiders, he compiled FOUR seasons of 8-8 or better and went to the playoffs TWICE! Another thing we haven't done. Oh then there's that thing about winning some big game at the end of the year known as the Super Bowl but we've never been there so does it really even exist?

Does anybody get where I'm coming from here? I don't see why Lerner, when he had the chance, didn't just throw money at Gruden instead, but apparently Mangini WOWED him something fierce. Again, proof positive folks, the bad decisions start at the top. The coaching isn't the problem, it's the ownership.

It's been brought to my attention that Gruden wasn't available when Mangini was hired. I think honestly we should have waited, possibly til the end of the playoffs and super bowl to hire our coach, because we could have gotten somebody better from a different coaching tree instead of shaking the Belichick/Ravens tree again for the Coach/GM combo.

Let's make Randy Lerner REALLY realize his mistake, do NOT buy any tickets for the home games that are left. Force the NFL to black out the Monday night game, and show Randy Lerner that we're done with this garbage he likes to call a football team.

I'm seriously thinking he wants that to happen though so he can move the team to LA, or maybe be the team that gets moved to London when the NFL finally decides to put a team there.

I have an idea how about the NFL opens up that ability for a team or organization to be bought by the fans through stock. Then we as the fan base,since we are deemed the most knowledgeable fan base in the NFL, can decide what route to take next season. Instead of year after year after year punishment. I for one would spend my money for 1 share in Cleveland Brown stock, or at least as much as I could get ha.

I commend all the Browns fans who can clearly see that Mangini needs to be fired now. The reasons are clear and obvious.

For those of you who cannot see it I suspect that you probably never will.

The mistake wasn't made in the hiring of Mangini the mistake was made in firing RAC.

Now hear me out.

Some fans I include myself believed that our problems lie with our lack of talent, not in the coaches. Mangini believes that thru hard work and discipline you can be a winner. I share that, but hard work and discipline can’t and won’t make up for lack of talent. Period.

The thing this team lacks has never been about the coach, it has always been about the players and their lack of ability. In fact I can’t think of one team in the NFL that is successful that has just average talent or a collection of average players. To some degree shedding KW and BE took a talent starved team and made them even more talent starved, but they were cancers and we weren’t winning with them so they wouldn’t constitute players that you would want to build around.

But guys our problems don’t lie within the coaching ranks our problems have been and continue to be player talent related. Get better players and will be a better team, until then will suffer. But keep your focus on the players, not the coaches get to the root cause of the problem, will be better served by that approach then the one we have adopted which is to fire the coach every single time.

JMHO

Lerner is the problem. He did his george Costanza "opposite" in January when he promised a tp GM to conduct a thorough search". He hired a coach already paid for.
WE got yet another rookie GM.
We then made a three beans for a cow trade where they get a franchise QB and we got a center and Jets refuse.
Then we saw Winslow dumped for Chump change.
WE our RT( Scheaffer) and gobbled up the guy the Bears dumped.
We Gave Quinn 2.5 games and sat him despite the Todd Philcox performances from DA.
Then Lerner and Mangini ask the fans for patience and days later we dump Edwards for more Jet refuse.
Sunday the team finally QUIT. They have Quit on DA. Mangini will not play Quinn again. Lerner won't pay anybody and you the fans have to PAY for this nightmare.
This is all LERNER. Mangini is his toady doing HIS bidding. Yard sale away everybody and get refuse and see what happens: REALITY.
Do not conduct a thorough search for a Coach and cheap out for another rookie GM and see what Reality comes of that( lopsided trades).
stubbornly stick to a QB no teamate believes in and see what happens.
This team is stuck and stupid. I have watched my last browns game this year. I read at Profootball talk where they mock Cleveland fans for supporting this refuse.
This hiring was an IN your Face move by Lerner. and this season has been an in your face move by Mangini.

quote:

Originally posted by BrownsFan1988:
LOL WHO?

Kellen Winslow? Yeah hes done pretty much nothing in Tampa Bay and they got suckered big time into giving him that massive contract. He was either always hurt or creating chaos in the press and locker room. He wont be missed. Tampa is already regretting it.

Kellen Winslow? Doing Nothing?
Yet . . . Somehow . . .
He Is Still The Number 7 TE in the league!

quote:

Originally posted by Upbeat Dawg:
The mistake wasn't made in the hiring of Mangini the mistake was made in firing RAC.

Now hear me out.

Some fans I include myself believed that our problems lie with our lack of talent, not in the coaches. Mangini believes that thru hard work and discipline you can be a winner. I share that, but hard work and discipline can’t and won’t make up for lack of talent. Period.

The thing this team lacks has never been about the coach, it has always been about the players and their lack of ability. In fact I can’t think of one team in the NFL that is successful that has just average talent or a collection of average players. To some degree shedding KW and BE took a talent starved team and made them even more talent starved, but they were cancers and we weren’t winning with them so they wouldn’t constitute players that you would want to build around.

But guys our problems don’t lie within the coaching ranks our problems have been and continue to be player talent related. Get better players and will be a better team, until then will suffer. But keep your focus on the players, not the coaches get to the root cause of the problem, will be better served by that approach then the one we have adopted which is to fire the coach every single time.

JMHO

the coach/GM are the root problem of this team. we have regressed all over the field since last season. their is no sign of improvement anywhere except with the defensive play calling.
the talent level is worse, the coach has to take the blame for that son for drafting and signing them, not the players and don't say kokinis is in charge of personnel decisions.

as stated in the article, the right side of the line is worse, we've no production from receiver or TE and our running game is worse. the depth of our defensive backfield is worse, the D line is worse as they are not getting the penetration they got last year and we drafted a guy in the 2nd round who doesnt even see the field at LB.

Mangini doesnt have a leg to stand on. he made all these decisions, i wasnt expecting a quick turnaround but this is much worse than ever, and most of all, a QB who we gave up a 1st and 2nd rounder and showed a lot of promise last season has been given all of 10 quarters this season. this is another organisational disaster.

and for you brownsfan1988,

winslow has been comparitively very productive this season considering the bucs appear to be just as bad as us.

in recessionary times employees should be evaluated equally, if you are not performing you should not keep your job. MANKOK has been an almighty mistake and if Mr.Lerner wants to run the browns as a successful business he has to bring some leadership to the organisation and pull out all the stops to bring in a big name at GM/Coach to get the fans excited. in such a case, we will give that person 3 years to make things happen, but for a man as dour as mangini who no one was excited about when he came here, to think we are going to watch that and expect to be content with that shambles for 3 years is lunacy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!period!

Romeo won 4 games with Charlie Frye as a QB...........


just sayin

I dont see how Mangini could possibly WOW any owner in a meeting, im guessing his slow speach hypnotizes the owner. When they wake up they assume they spoke to someone that doesnt belong in special ed.

quote:

Originally posted by itsrye:
If we would get rid of Mangini this season, would we have to continue paying his salary until his 3 year contract is up?

I think that could mean that next year we would be paying for three total head coaches, Crennel, Mangini and whoever they would bring in. Not to mention still paying for Savage.

Why would this matter to any fan? "We"? It's Lerner's money, there is no coaching salary cap. Hell he should have to pay something for consistantly hiring losers. Just think of it as a 'fan reparation' or 'poor performance penalty.'

Well, I'm willing to admit it was a mistake for me to read McManamon's article. Yeah sure, let's fire the coach halfway through his first season, that's one of the hallmarks of a good franchise.

i was not in favor of hiring boygini, and i still am not happy with him as our head coach. i don't believe he is our answere at HC, but i will try to look at this, un-biases

it seems he has pushed the players away from him by his ruling with an iron fist mantality. but you can't demand respect you have to earn it.

what has boygini done to earn respect?
-brought in some players from NYJ to help teach his philosophy
-with kokinis has stocked up some draft picks
-drafted a nice tandem of WR's and picked up a key part of our OL in the draft
-showed a few vets the door that were underperforming, but i think mostly cause thier ego's were un-coachable
-brought in some coaches that i think have a nice potential to help us
-brought in a GM that many feel is a solid GM
-he has not allowed the media to push him around


what has he done to loose respect?
-he has won 1 game this season
-we look terrible at each game, which it is the coaches job to prepare them
-he went back on his word with the QB thing
-his secrecy rubbed alot of people and media wrong way over the QB thing
-he has caused a QB controversy
-fines to players that were over the top
-offers very little info to the fans and media about the team and why he made some of the desisions he has made
-some will argue given BQ the hook, i thought it was justified, however DA is not setting world on fire either, so why did he not get the hook too?
-questionable practice techniques with players getting hurt etc... I AM NOT BLAMING HIM FOR DAVIS, just bringing up the point

i am sure i am missing many other points, those are just the ones that stick out in my mind

the only way he is going to gain an respect is in the WIN COLUMN. if we win some he will gain the players respect and them buying into the system. it will also get the media and fans off his back. if we continue to get whipped every game, he will loose the players and they will quit on him and he will NEVER get them back.

if we continue to loose, i hope we fire him, as i don't want his regime to have access to our draft next year. lets be honest we are ATLEAST 3 years away from being descent, and that is assuming we have a successful draft next year, so we MUST capitalize in the draft for our future.

this is laughable...

save this article and repost in a couple years when the browns go deep into the playoffs with mangini as our HC.

To save his face Mangini needs to come out and flat out say..

"We sat Quinn to save 11 million for the potential uncapped season.. If he comes in after the bye and does good we might talk about his next contract.. If not well we draft another one.."

If he fails to state that at some point he is another Butch Davis..

This is a REBUILDING year...what did you all expect?

They're trading away problem players, gaining draft picks, and they didn't sign any overpaid and washed up free agents like Savage did numerous times. This is the right approach. It also looks like they found some decent players in last year's draft. They also missed, but so far I'm seeing more from this class then I have from past draft's that included Wimbley and Edwards.

It's going to take time to build.

Everybody wants to change QB's, but the real problem lies with the ROOKIE offensive co-ordinator.....He is in over his head!!!!! The Packers stacked the box on DA and we couldn't come up with anything better than three yard flares across the middle or when down by three scores plus, we are running Lewis up the gut.

And as I watched the sidelines, Daboll and Mangini are speaking and Daboll has his play list covering his mouth like he is afraid somebody is going to steal his plays.....It was an absolute joke. There is no creativity, no originality. And we wanted DA because he can spread the field, make all the throws....Then why isn't your pick for an OC calling those type of plays? We had less than 100 yards passing for Christ's Sake!!!!

I was amazed as the third quarter came and mid way through, the stadium was half empty.....Pathetic! Even Thomas looked like he was dialing it up Sunday.....The coaches are not preparing this team and we should at least be getting some competition out there. To say we have a lack of talent is the reason - well then Romeo was a genius because this team has Mangini's stamp all over it and his draft is leaving alot to be desired and we want to give him another shot at a poor draft? And we have to draft well because only Jets rejects are coming to Cleveland to play.....

I was at the game Sunday and it was a joke and the fan base is unravelling. I have never heard that much negative criticism of a Cleveland Browns team in more than forty years of being a fan.....

Go Brownies!!!

The only thing that the Browns have been consistent at since 1999 is being inconsistent. You could say that we have been a losing team, that is true, but why?

We have changed QB's more than any other team ever in the NFL in 10 years. No consistency. When Quinn got benched he should have been traded on the spot. It worked before. The Browns have been through coaches like pants. How does a team build itself if systems are learned and tossed every couple of seasons.

This coaching staff needs a chance. Yes, we have lost a lot of games this season and yes it is embarrassing. But not as bad as looking at the two starting pitchers in the 2009 World Series. What I see is lack of talent coming together. Receivers need to catch footballs that hit their hands. Nothing can be put on Anderson or Quinn for those mistakes. DB's need to make tackles. Nothing can be put on Ryan or Mangini for those mistakes.

This Browns team is a new team. We are not an expansion, but we did re-build. And building anything good takes time. Anybody from Garfield Hts.? They sure put that Walmart strip mall up fast didn't they?

solutions:
Learner needs to step aside. He is not going to sell the team. His Dad's wishes were to NOT sell the team. In comes Kosar. Let number 19 finish what he started 20 years ago. The man is a genius. Let him have total power of the operations and see what happens.

Keep this coaching team minus Daboll. If anybody needs to go, it is him. The offense is boring and making mistakes. So, get a guy that is going to be creative. If they make mistakes, so what. Be aggressive and creative. That is future of the NFL.

Put the ball in the players hands that get things done. Cribbs, Cribbs, Cribbs. Then pay him, a lot!

What needs to happen is something new and this coaching staff can do it. The Dolphins are playing basic football right now. And it is working because the NFL has not seen it in years. Well since Jim Brown played. They are getting the ball in the hands of the guys that make it happen as soon as possible. Blacktop football, not Wildcat.

Stick with a coach. Stick with a QB. Play football.

Footnote: Cowher is never, ever going to coach this team. He will be the coach of the Washington Redskins next year. Billik is junk. He got a team that if I remember right was pretty good.

GO BROWNS!