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brownschat.clevelandbrowns.com Forums Main Index Pure Football Article: Time for Browns to admit mistake with Mangini Topic Closed|
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Be more specific, exactly what good football moves did Parcells make when he took over? ********************************************** Nothing shocks me anymore. Well, except for the cop with a Taser that one time. |
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He brought in Penninton a QB that did not create turnovers, improved the D with bringing in Porter. Jake Long for an anchor on the line. We have too many hole on D for Mangini to pass up on Rey M. or Matthews to get WRs especially when that was one of our stronger areas (still needed attention, but not high on the list).I think that with the team being where it is Mangini needs to look at what we have and evaluate in game settings. I am talking about BQ and his draft choices, if we get no improvement from them move on. Mangini is letting his ego get in the way of making good decisions for the future of our Browns.
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Hmmm... In fairness, with Stallworthless, and Edwards not catching balls, and Cribbs (not a WR), I can't blame him for drafting Robiske, and I certainly won't complain about massoquoi. Also, as "odd" is it sounds, maybe Winslow who had a hot start and cooled off, isn't catching balls now due to a poor QB, but Edwards is not exactly running solid routes in a contract year for the JETS. Therefore, even with Edwards, I question our receivers' abilities. My point on Winslow, is I think a solid Receiving TE was what Brady needed as starter. Thus, maybe I should question Winslow being let go, but at this point, Braylon is not missed. This team has a ton of holes to fill, not just on Defense. Don't get me wrong, I am off the Mangini band wagon, which lost all four of its wheels, but obviously Crennel/Savage did not help our roster either. Mack and Thomas have been really the only GREAT Picks for this team since coming back into the league in 1999. Massoquoi and some of the newer ones are yet to be determined. |
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MANGINI OUT! (and his puppet kokinis)
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A game manager QB who doesn’t have a cannon arm and is best suited for short controlled passes. Sounds a lot like BQ. Where is Pennington now, hurt again isn’t he?
Parcells joined the Dolphins in 2008. Porter signed with the Dolphins in 2007. However, in a defense related move in 2008, Parcells traded away 2006 Defensive Player of the Year Jason Taylor for a 2nd round draft pick and a 6th round draft pick.
We have an anchor at LT in Joe Thomas. Mangini drafted our anchor in the middle of the line this year with Mack.
As I said earlier, Mangini didn’t draft for immediate impact. Our receiving corps looked decent in the offseason but it was all an illusion, and WRs usually take 3 years to develop. Also, I’m not sure how either of those LBs would fit in Mangini’s 3-4 system. It could be that they’re great 4-3 LBs and mediocre 3-4 LBs, and I don’t really know because I don’t follow the college game. So football guru Parcells didn’t bring in any big name talent. Same as Mangini. Parcells concentrated on improving the offensive line. Same as Mangini. Parcells traded away a big name talent for a 2nd round draft pick. Same as Mangini. You’re right, Parcells made good football moves. Same as Mangini. Last year the Dolphins had a good year, but in case anyone hasn't noticed, they're only 2-4 this year. Funny how everyone wants to point to the Dolphins as an example of team that had a one year turnaround for the good last year, but then wants to ignore their one year turnaround for the bad this year. That 2-4 record is on genuine football guru Parcells just like the good year last year. ********************************************** Nothing shocks me anymore. Well, except for the cop with a Taser that one time. |
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its way to soon to blame all this on mangini!this team has about 6 real good player and thats it.it will be at least 2 years to see anything! go browns
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Pffft to much time. He should be at .500 by mid season next year or he's a failure, plain and simple. Other HC's have done it elsewhere. There are too many great coachs available right now to wait that long. No sir, if Mangini can't right the ship to atleast a .500 record by mid season next year he should be axed. -------------- Dawg Gone (I Miss using the term ManKok) |
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Does it really matter? He just seems to know what to do. He made the correct moves of making a losing team into a winning team in just 1 short year! But heaven forbid, we don't want anything like that here. -------------- Dawg Gone (I Miss using the term ManKok) |
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Duh!!! we like to play a nice game called Rebuilding around here. Success in the NFL takes a coach 3 to 5 years minimum, trust me. This is all like a bad dream, or even more so this is like that newest Mac commercial ripping Windows 7. havent seen it? Well here it is. Sounds like a Browns situation I mean, if PC were the Browns organization, Mac was the Fans, and substitute in 'just give me three years and we'll be a contender' this is oh so similar to the situation now with Mangina. Sorry Browns, but not this time. --------- Welcome to Cleveland! Home of the famous Tiredcat formation and the premier place that QB's come to kill their careers. |
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It may be 2 years to you but its $4,000 of Browns tickets to me. This guy is a mistake and should be replaced at the bye week. There isn't one thing that this football team is doing better this year over last year(except losing). Take the $11 mill they are screwing Quinn out of and buy out this idiot. |
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This news is exactly what most of us watching and rooting for the Browns are really feeling. Mr. Lerner, please get rid of Mangini and Kokonis as soon as possible! They have made the team worse in alot of ways, and I would not trust them with the future of this Franchise. Give the keys to somebody like Bill Cohwer and let him use the Draft picks to build a winning organization. If Mangini is left in charge, the Browns will not be good for a long time. A proven veteran leader is what Cleveland really needs, this excuse that Mangini and Company show us on Sundays is a joke! |
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I guess I am in the minority then! Most on this board?- Yes Most REAL fans?- NO Forget hope! Show me some HEART! |
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YEAH ... lets keep the coaching carousel turning. Thats a great way to run the team. Appoint a new head coach every year after less than 1/2 a season.
This is a junk article written by someone who either has a grudge or just wants to cause a splash in the local media. Total and utter garbage. |
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So real fans cant say bad things about the browns? Bull puckey.. and you in the minority ..what are you seeing. The team stats are the worse since 1999.  |
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Agree we have to quit that But Mangini must show us he know what the heck he is doing and so far he cant. It is like we dont have pro coaches |
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I watch my browns every week. Win or loose. I will never give up on them. This team acts as if they have no idea how to play. Has to be coaching. |
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You're probably one of the posters who thought all that DA needed was a couple more years of experience. How did that turn out. If Mangini knew what he was doing he would still be the Jets coach. Lerner got duped into hiring this guy. Time to admit his mistake and try to fix it. Why waste two more years proving what most people already know. |
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I'm sorry, but you don't "know" jack. I know that you and others that are impatient and petulant continue to ignore what I've posted about the hiring of the FO, but ERNIE ACCORSI recommended Mangini and Kokinis. I'll take the word over one of the best football minds around over that of a bunch of fans that are so clusless, they can't grasp the understanding of salary cap limitations, free agency signings, etc. Sorry, I trust a man that has proven he knows the game over a bunch of impatient people that really have no clue whatsoever about the inner workings of a team. |
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I don't give a crap who you trust. The reason you trust him is because you can't think for yourself. As soon as Ernie Accorsi starts paying for my season tickets I'll start letting him do my thinking. |
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So all of you "true" fans that support the way this franchise has been run since 1999, here is a question:
Your main point seems to be that it takes 3-5 years to determine if a FO/coach passes or fails in the NFL. By that logic, HOW can you support this franchise? Be it Butch, RAC, or soon to be Mangini, I bet the average length of a FO here will be 3 years tops. Do you honestly think that Mankok will be here in 2013? I'll bet money we will be having this discussion again in 2013. Ah yes, 2013, the start of ANOTHER FIVE year rebuilding plan! I cant wait. |
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why don't you leave the board so and don't come back. if this is what you think of all the posters on here that is obviously all that you bring to the debate too, so to be quite honest with you, i don't want to read what you have to say. |
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every body is screamin' for mangini's head. which, to a point i can understand. but what nobody is thinking of is the fact that you cant build a team with character problems. look around the league at teams like Indy, New Eng., and yes, as much as i hate to say it,Pitt..you dont see problems with their character. simply because its not tolerated. mangini is goin about this the right way, ship out all the riff-raff, gather good picks and draft well. thats how you build a complete and well rounded team, and he knows that seeing as hes from the bellichik tree. LAST, give the guy his contract time and if he hasnt performed his jobly duties to satisfaction then poop can him. remember we fired crennel because we were horrid........well we still are and you think firing him and hiring a new guy will change that. NEWSFLASH john madden could come out of retirement to coach us and fail for the first two years due to lack of talent and identity. all im sayin is its to early to crucify mangini. if they arent any better at this point next season then you can start to worry........but just a little....
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He also made the moves of making the 2008 winning team into the 2009 losing team which for all the hype is now 2-4 on the year and has exactly 1 more win than the Browns. Off hand I don't know what their strength of schedule is for this year, but I do know that our SoS is the highest in the league. So if Parcells is going to get the credit for last year, he has to take the blame for this year. ********************************************** Nothing shocks me anymore. Well, except for the cop with a Taser that one time. |
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2008 Winning team? 4-12 was our record in '08 ------------------------------ Derek Anderson 10.5 QB rating week 8-NOT SMACK JUST FACT |
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I see, so you don't think facts like one of the most respected minds in the game advising on the hiring of the FO has any place in all the crying and whining about how dumb Lerner is? You think that the fact that Lerner has shown money is never an issue by paying salaries for those he fired and replaced has any merit while people are screaming he's cheap? Facts have no place around a good temper tantrum. Got it. The simple fact is NONE OF US know more about building and running a team than those in the FO. None of us know the inner workings of the team or the plans on how to build them. I include myself in that statement. Just as I would take the word of a nuclear physicist over someone that works as say a auto mechanic over nuclear physics, I'll trust thost that actually know the situation and have proven successful. If you don't want to do that, that's fine. Just don't blame those that are reasonable and logical for being so. |
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I think skeelos was referring to Bill Parcells and the 2008 Dolphins.. ------------------------------ Cleveland & Ohio State sports..well it's just in my blood. |
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When we HAVE a FO that consists of those "proven" successful then I'll trust them too. The only thing this owner has proven is he picks winners....in Soccer. And Mankok hasn't proven anything but a 1-6 record and they got DAMNED lucky they got the one win. Now YOU may be thrilled with how this team is playing. However, as a noted pessimist on this board, even I didn't foresee an effort this bad. Though I'm not surprised you and a few others(gabedawg) are satisfied with this product. Being REAL fans and all..... Guess it's cool that someone is happy with how this team is playing. But I'm sure the hell not. -------------------------------------- Abandon hope, all ye who enter here. |
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Just posted this on another bash Mangini thread but the thread got deleted - was able to copy and will paste it here cause I think it applies to the possible build up of this team - what we are seeing here in 09 is the Tear down.
just frustrated fans bashing those in charge...understandable but not going anywhere in their concepts. 1. I wish to see Mangini's team here and what he can do with it. Not Savage's team here and what he can do with it. 2. Yes, we are keeping a lot of character guys to build a team around and LEAD all the NEW BROWNS SOON TO COME. 11 picks in 2010??? 3. This team needs TALENT we did get rid of KW2 n BE because they were not the kind of Talent we wanted to build a team around - both too Me, me me. But still both very talented. Talent by far OUT WEIGHS Character unless you get 30+ in your program ALL INTELLIGENT, ALL WITH SOME TALENT, ALL KNOWING THE SYSTEM BACKWARDS AND FORWARDS. We don't have this. But if we get some YOUNG TALENT who will comform to the CHARACTER of the team when they come in. It might work. If that is the plan. You win games with the LOS...we made an investment into the future with Mack. On D we have the Front 7...I believe we have good representation on the 3 DL with depth. But we need LB help and Stud Talent. Barton and Bowens is nice to have and mentor the youth but they lack in talent. DQ is the only established keeper - but alas, he's on IR. We also need a QB....Shore up the OL even more, RG n RT specifically. Complete and/or develop the youth and Get some stud Talent here for LB...get franchise QB and we are well on our road. Can we do that next offseason. I think all a fairly easy task with FA n 11 picks...Except for that QB thing...toughest position to evaluate from college and get it right. Just quickly thinking for example. Possibly David Carr QB and Shawne Merriman OLB in FA...combined with the 11 picks as well as the development of Mack, Robo, MoMas, DV, AAA, Francies, Davis...with the Veteran leadership that we have kept or will be keeping. We could be onto something GOOD!!! Very GOOD! Fans of which I am one too. I am very, very frustrated believe me. But I am not willing to pull the plug on M/K without giving them the 3 years I feel is needed to make this THEIR TEAM! Then I will judge them in their Prowess or not. JMHO Kokinis Gone - maybe Holmgren coming. Mangini brings the Browns up! Remember its a 3 year program. |
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And he is in a contract year, no? He is such a stud as everyone says, won't he be in high demand? ********************************************************************* “We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager.” - Marv Levy |
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i agree it's time to let him go......we are looking more like the oakland raiders every day.....butttttt,,,,i don't believe randy is senile or is he??????????????
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Everybody needs to back off of Mangini for awhile. I am old enough to remember that we chased Belichek and Forrest Gregg out of town, because they had tough years and didn't give us all the warm and fuzzies. I am sure that everyone here would gladly have Bill running the show for us now. Hey, I cursed him when he dumped Bernie. You don't spit on people's icons, but coaches have to worry about building teams, and winning championships. EO, I think that we already have our QB, and no its not DA. Believe it or not, I think it will still eventually be Quinn. Brady will play again this year, of this I am certain. I don't care what baloney Mangini feeds the fans or the media, this was a business decision. Keep Quinn's salary low, and keep him in one piece. Do you think that he's learning the system at practice? You bet he is. They don't want this kid becoming another David Carr. I say they play him after game 10. If he lights it up, we win both ways. His trade value goes up if we want to move him, or we see what he can do once the pressure is off. Grooming him for next year, hopefully when we have a right tackle,tight end, and a running game to support him. If he plays well- then he gets paid, one way or another. I'm sure Brady knows what's up, as well as DA. This constant rebuilding is certainly disturbing, but give the guy a chance.
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I would give him a chance if he would stop lying .." I see some good thigs we are doing". There was nothing good in that game Sunday, admit it we SUCK. |
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MacGyver - we agree on most. Not quite as sure about BQ as you but that is ok. We'll see, the ideal time to bring him in as the starter for the rest of the season will be in the BYE WEEK. If we don't see it by then I don't think it will happen.
So expect DA to light up the game with the Bears so that move cannot be made  ...its Murphy's Law always ready to bite us in the butt lol  Kokinis Gone - maybe Holmgren coming. Mangini brings the Browns up! Remember its a 3 year program. |
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EO- Man, I'm living to see DA light it up. I just want to see a win. Period. As far as Mangini goes, I think they guy is a bit smarter than we're giving him credit for. He knew what he was getting into when he came here. I don't think he enjoys it anymore than the rest of us,but it goes with the territory. Holding the Lombardi Trophy does too, after you've paid your dues. Just ask Dungy, Vermiel, or Bill Belichek for that matter. What do they all have in common besides championships? They were all run out of town on a rail at one time or another by the local "experts".
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RiverDawg8 said "This Browns team is a new team. We are not an expansion, but we did re-build. And building anything good takes time. Anybody from Garfield Hts.? They sure put that Walmart strip mall up fast didn't they?" They are playing worse than the 1999 expansion team did. Not all of these players forgot how to play football, it has to be the way they are coached. It is definatly Play calling.. but the players dont dare challenge a call made by one of the coordinators, or out they go. Worse than the 1999 expansion team. Worst in the history of the browns. That says it all.. |
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To the Mangini naysayers, you make me think of people who go new car shopping, and see the EPA mpg ratings on the stickers say 24 mpg city and 30 mpg highway. So you buy the car, but because you are so impatient, and have to be everywhere RIGHT NOW, you are constantly overdriving the car, mashing down on the gas pedal, slamming on the brakes, mashing the pedal again and doing so for 6 months. You not once get even close to the mileage you read on the sticker when you first bought the car. You have also replaced the brake pads on this vehicle 3 years before they should have worn out. You have a warrenty of 5 years on the brake pads, but it was declined when the service center showed you the heat marks on the shoes and they said your impatient driving habits were at fault, and the manufacturer would not honor the warranty in this case. So you get mad at the manufacturer and demand they take the car back and refund your money. Nevertheless, your impatient driving habits created a bad situation for both yourselves, and the dealership. I see that in your responses as fans of this organization. This team lacks talent, there are some coaching calls that I even wonder about, but it is the first year of this regime. PATIENCE is needed, like your driving habits need less stomping the pedal and straining the brakes, PATIENCE will get the car to deliver more than the sticker average mpg, if you respond to the capabilities of the car. You will even add a year to the life of those brake pads with PATIENCE. We all would love immediate results, we see it in other teams a lot. But it is not happening this year with the BROWNS, so get over it. Make your payments for your car, or season tickets if that may be, nobody held a gun at your head to make the purchase, right? It seems to me that maybe quite a few of you just want to blame everything and everybody else for what you have the choice of following and supporting. Maybe some of you need to man up, take responsibility of the bad purchase of the season tickets when you knew this was a rebuilding year? Maybe some of you are not capable of seeing a bigger picture because you have been handed everything else in life and you have never had to EARN anything? I see this behavior every day at work, and it sickens me. You all have a choice, be a BROWNS fan or not. But firing Eric will only mean 1 thing for certain, another start to a REBUILD!!
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Patience is needed when you have the right coach in place. This guy is not a coach. If you give him 5-10 years he might win a playoff game but come on! We need a real man! A Ken Wisenhunt or Sean Payton type who you can stand behind. The fans will know once we get the right guy in place and this City will Rock once again! But you have to get rid of the fruitcakes...
One good thing about Lerner, who knows nothing about football, is that once you have good people in place, he will never be in the way!! |
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I like Mangini and I think he has a good "plan" if the fans would back off long enough to let him actually rebuild this team.
Romeo got what?? was it 3 or 4 years? Mangini isnt worse than him. It will take a couple years |
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Could you please let us know what's Mangini's Plan, cause I'm lost in that area. I don't seen any plan at all |
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While I agree with eotab and others on patience, and building a good team takes time. Is Mangini capable? I have no inside information. Mangini has appeared to be less than candid. His ego seems to drive decisions.
We all want a solid team, built the right way. We are all tired of what seems to be a continual re-building. And losing. I was supportive of ManKok, and hopefull. The bus ride. The fall off in performance at the QB position, by both DA and BQ. Sticking with the 35th, 35th, 35th ranked QB in the NFL, and praising him. Where are the small improvements? Penalties are down. What else? Sorry to say, Mangini is growing on me, but not in a positive way. Sure hope that I am full of it. |
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