We are all upset that the Browns have played poorly this year. Many people have said that we need to bench DA, as if that will cure our ills. Others insist that firing RAC will do the trick. I'm not so sure about either. I think there are a multitude of problems and I would like to discuss them and some possible remedies.

Coaching:

There has been some mismanagement of the clock. There have been questionable decisions about going for it or punting and going for the TD or the FG. There is the talk of TC being too easy and not serious enough. All our true and the coaching staff needs to work to fix those problems.

The most baffling question for me is why are we not stretching the field more? Why are we trying to dink and dunk when we have a QB who excels at throwing the long ball? I really don't know the answer to this one, but it could concern my next problem area.

The Offensive Line:

The line has not played as well as it did last year. DA has been sacked more often and he certainly has taken way more hits that last year. This is particularly disturbing because for the most part, we are going w/3 step drops and trying to release the ball quickly. If BQ were the QB, the sack totals might be much higher.

The OL hasn't been a force in the run game either. Of course, they never were, but last year our deep passing game helped open up running lanes. Neither are happening this year and the line is part of the problem.


DA:

I thought DA played fairly well against Dallas, and he played okay in parts of the games against Pittsburgh and Baltimore. However, he was absolutely terrible in other parts of those games.

The most troubling is how he appeared to lose his confidence in the second half against Baltimore. I hope this isn't true, because you cannot play QB w/out confidence.

DA has been hurt by a multitude of breakdowns around him, but he has added to the problems w/some footwork when he is being pressured which has led to accuracy problems. QBs don't throw well w/out setting their feet. He needs to play better, but he is not the sole problem like many say he is.

Braylon Edwards:

Edwards has been the biggest problem and most disappointing of all players. He has a dead ball penalty in each of the first three games. That is incredible. He is a WR. How can he be getting these types of penalties? I say it is lack of focus and preparation.

BE has also dropped six passes and refused to fight for inside position when going over the middle. He has been just as much at fault ......and probably even more at fault.....on some of the picks as DA has.

It also bothers me that he has no remorse for his childish actions. BE is one of those types of people who appears to have been spoiled his entire life. He is never accountable for his mistakes. I also think he is a real cancer in the locker room.


S. Rogers

Speaking of cancers, I think Rogers is one too. I think that he doesn't work hard. I think he jokes around way too much. If you went to TC, you know what I mean. I think he doesn't prepare. I think he has brought his lazy, selfish, I don't give a damn style to Cleveland and it has hurt our chemistry.

On the field.....he is NOT the beast that everyone is saying he is. Yes, he makes some great plays. However, most of the time, he chooses a gap and gets easily taken out of the play. I saw him get knocked on his can and then sealed 5 yds to the wrong side on back-to-back plays against the Ravens. Unacceptable. He reminds me so much of Big Money.

Guys like Edwards and Rogers are problems, especially when things are going well.


Injuries:

We all hate using injuries as excuses, but this offense has not played together. We lost DA, Edwards, and JLew in preseason. We lost Tucker and Steinbach on the OL. We haven't had Stallworth. There has been no continuity and we NEVER had a chance to develop a rhythm. Yes, injuries have been a factor.

The biggest loss has been Joe J. People don't realize how valuable he was. He was DA's security blanket. Yes, he threw to K2 to open things up. He threw the deep ball to BE, which excited us all. But, Joe was his go-to guy. He was the guy who was always in the spot he was supposed to be. He was the guy who DA could rely on in third down situations. He was the guy who DA could trust to run the right route and to catch the ball when it mattered.

Joe's loss has been compounded by losing Stallworth and BE's terrible play. Steptoe has been putrid. I like the kid, but man, he should not be starting for any team.

Defense:

I know most of you probably think the defense has played okay. They haven't given up a ton of points, but they are still weak. We do not get any pressure on the QB. Our d-line is undisciplined against the run, especially Rogers and S. Smith. I think Williams has been playing w/one arm.

E. Wright plays w/more cushion than any corner in the league. Our safeties have missed time and both are terrible at giving deep help.

This defense can not make the big stop and get itself off the field when it needs to. Until this changes, I don't think we will win, no matter how well the offense plays. We have ignored the incompetence of the D only because of how awful the O has played.


Attitude:

This summer, I told Diam that you just never know how a team will react after a year of moderate success that followed a prolonged down period. We saw how the Jets and Saints flopped last year. We have seen other teams build on the success. You just never know.

Well, it appears that we didn't handle last year's moderate success well. I wonder if we believed our press clippings and forgot to work? I wonder if we thought we were so good that we could turn it on when we wanted?

I think we handled this poorly and I blame three men in particular:

Edwards: Too many other interests and is not serious enough about the game. Has a poor attitude and shows no accountability.

Rogers: The guy is a loser. He is so talented, but he is lazy, undisciplined, and a bad influence on the other guys.

RAC: It's his team and this has happened under his watch.


How do we fix those problems? Some are fixable, some are not. Some have to wait until next year. I would like to discuss resolutions to our problems in the posts that follows.

I do have a favor to ask you. Please don't just type:

"DA SUCKS!!! PUT QUINN IN!!!"

or

"FIRE RAC!!! HIRE COWHER OR MARTY!!!"

We have seen all of that thousands and thousands of times. I am not saying you shouldn't talk about the coaching or qb play, but please support your opinions. Please try to speak w/intelligence. Use logic and reason as your guide, rather than pure emotion. If you can't, please rant on the multitude of other threads that are devoted to bashing DA and RAC.

I would like to see some of you address some of the other issues I have raised. You see.........I don't think our problems thus far have been the fault of one man, nor even two. I think we have quite a few problems and when you add them all up....you get what we have seen thus far.

I think the single most important fix is to shore up the Defense. The group may seem weak, but fixing problems there would be a great place to start.
I'm not worried so much for the offense, or the special teams...they will get their scores, and I think Cribbs playing WR is in the perfect spot to run some trick plays "we haven't seen yet".If they had used Cribbs on a trick play in the red zone against the Steelers...we may have won that game.

Play solid Defense, keep the opponent of the board, and tweak the offense a bit. It's the only thing we can hope for with what we have to work with.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dover_Dawg,

were loosing because we dident trade for lito sheppard

Great post only one thing you left out. Penalties. This is due to lack of discipline because of bad coaching.

Vers- Your assessment is fair and reasonably accurate in general I think. So look at the situation you're describing. There are problems in ALL aspects of the game (except special teams). Poor play, mental errors and questionable attitude/work ethic issues.

This situation is too broad to point fingers at just one player or even the coach, it's a pervasive organizational problem that is contributed to by everyone and touches everyone.

I have no clue as to what might be the answer to this type of problem but I'm pretty sure that changing out a few players or scrapinng the coach is not the answer. That's like changing the air filter in a house filled with mold.

Starting over is a possibility but we've done that so many times that is has become part of the desease rather than a cure.

I think it will need a really top notch football guy to set high standards and have the "stroke" to impliment them to get the organization as a whole on the right path.

You don't neccessarily have to scrap the people we have, just find someone to stop the millimg about and get everyone pointed in the same direction and moving together. We need a traffic cop.

I think the main problem lies with RAC.

No one is held accountable for their poor play, mental mistakes or lack of effort. If you are a starter you will never lose your job.

Where is the competition for PT? Training camps are too soft as are practices. If you are a backup you have to wait for an injury for a chance to start.

We are a team that is a finesse team in a smash mouth division.

No matter what people want to believe, Romeo will be held accountable for the teams poor play and his refusal to make changes.

quote:

Originally posted by legrad:
I think the main problem lies with RAC.

No one is held accountable for their poor play, mental mistakes or lack of effort. If you are a starter you will never lose your job.

Where is the competition for PT? Training camps are too soft as are practices. If you are a backup you have to wait for an injury for a chance to start.

We are a team that is a finesse team in a smash mouth division.

No matter what people want to believe, Romeo will be held responsible for the teams poor play and his refusal to make changes.

I don't think removing RAC will be an immediate fix, with that said...will he change? doubtful.

i think your wrong about rogers. he is the only one on the D that consistently makes plays and its clear to see he is a disruptive force. your pretty right on about the other stuff.

legrad-

I think you are right on the money.

YOU'VE GOTTA STOP SOMEBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay............a pretty decent start. Thanks for those of you who answered w/intelligence.

The point about penalties is huge. I knew it, but in my hasted, forgot to mention it. The high number of "mental" penalties, as opposed to "aggressive" penalties, goes back to two of my points--------Coaching and Attitude.

I like RAC and have defended him, but it is a direct reflection on the coach if a team is undisciplined. The attitude thing goes to the players. Look at the stupid penalties that Edwards has committed. Look at the penalties by the DL. And both BE and the DL were noticed "screwing" around during TC.

Now........how do we fix these things?

Great Post and Thread VERS!

I think the schedule has hurt us. I wish we would have had Houston first and let the Steelers have the Cowboys first. I know that sounds weak but if we had been 1-2 our attitude would have been better.

In the long run the Browns will win the total number of games they should win. 8-8 or 7-9 is still reasonable. Always was. The good thing is 8-8 might get us to the playoffs this year.

In addition to the crazy and difficult schedule, I would add lofty expectations / pressure. I feel that Braylon is pressing. I feel that Derek's unusual smiling is masking the pressure he feels.

Lastly, philosophy. The Browns should attack on both offense and defense for the first 3 quarters every game. I want to see an attacking defense, not a read and react.

To me if you give up the long play, so what.

You get the ball back and your defense gets off of the field. Get the ball back, eat some clock, score, kickoff, then attack on defense again. Either "3 and out" or "big gain" for the other team. Let's try to get sacks and turnovers. I hate seeing the other team "drive" on us slowly.

Great thread! Thanks.

Thank you and you're welcome.

You raise another good point. The schedule has been tough, especially considering we have been banged up on offense. We have faced three pretty good defenses during a time when we have no continuity on offense.

I do think the Dallas D was a bit weak, and we actually moved the ball against them. However, the drops by BE and Steptoe were big. So was the fumbled snap. So were some of RAC's decisions. And more importantly.....the defense could not get off the field.

Besides the OP, which was excellent...I would add the following:

On overrated O-line. They have been basically told they were all-world in the media prior to this season, and they believed it. Fact is, they are an aging O-line if you take away the left side. I notice LCB is still a free agent. Wouldn't hurt to give him another shot if his knee is not finished.

Eric Wright. The guy plays defensive back like a high schooler...always 5 - 10 yards off the receiver. It's baffling. Every receiver has no pressure to catch the ball whatsoever on him, and they do. He's a nickle back at best.

Our D-line plays like their feet are in cement. No stunts, only bull rush. Partly Rucker's fault.

Stallworth is the Browns' version of Larry Hughes...very expensive china with no heart.

DA can't hit the broadside of a barn. I'm not talking about being slightly off...I mean his passes are either 5 feet over the receiver, or bounce 5 feet before the receiver. He should look into Lasik surgery...

The "try" attitude of Romeo. His press conferences are an emarrasement to the NFL. All of his "we will try to get the guy ready", "we will try to win" are inexcuseable phrases to be using as an NFL coach.

Rod Chudzinski and Rucker. Either RAC has taken control of the offense, or Butch Davis has been in Rod's ear. The 3 yard pass on 3rd and 9 has been the staple of the Browns' offense since '99, and I'm sick of it. With all of the supposed playmakers we have, it's time to put up or shut up. Make a play, for cryin' out loud!

No discipline. The stupid penalties kill us, and that is a reflection on the head coach. It seems like every kickoff return or punt return has a holding, tripping or illegal block call. If special teamers can't do their jobs for 6 plays a game, cut them and bring in someone that can! No excuses!

Savage. He has bought into the adoration he has received, and has been content with what he has put out there. This is the same stinking attitude we saw from the Indians last offseason by Shapiro (a good friend of Savage, I might add)...and look where the pick to win the World Series in '08 is at today. The Browns will also be right there with them at the end of this season.

Special Teams. When was the last time we blocked a kick or a punt? Had a good return? 2007 is over..."what have you done for me lately"?

The LB's. Wimbley will go down in Courtney Brown / Gerard Warren folklore. He is officially a bust in his third year.

I can go on, but will let someone else chime in. I'm getting mad just typing this...

Good post, Vers. Man, it's nice to see actual discussion on these boards. Here's my opinions/resolutions:


I don't think firing coaches, in the short term, is the answer. I think it will only cause more turmoil. When a head coach is fired mid-season, it's a clear indication the team is giving up.

Additionally, RAC just got an extension in the off-season. It's just not logical that he'd get axed mid-season, and highly unlikely that he'll be axed at season's end.


The O-line appears to be a mess right now and it's most likely because they are sorely missing depth. The Browns have attempted to make major upgrades to the line the last few years. Unfortunately, not all of them worked out (Bentley, Tucker). I believe they'll get better. It's hard to judge them on these three games; they've went up against three TOUGH, blitzing defenses. I'm witholding judgement at this time.


Derek isn't the only problem, for sure, but he is one of the problems. He had a meteoric rise last season, but everybody started seeing the decline toward the end of last season. I hoped his success would continue, but I've always been skeptical that he's NFL starter quality. His attitude is an issue (discussed later).

I think it's time to make him a back-up (because I think he's a quality back-up) and see what we have in the Notre Dame product.


Braylon's drops are driving me to drink! Vers, you said he has six drops. I could blame up to three of those on Derek, but Braylon is supposed to be an elite reciever... he should make those catches.


I'll have to look at Rogers closer to form an opinion


Injuries are part of the game and EVERY team deals with them. Depth and quality players in all 53 roster spots is what overcomes injuries.


As for the defense, it's probably good the Browns are going to have a top ten pick in the draft. We need a shut down corner in the mold of Champ Bailey or a pit-bull linebacker in the mold of Urlacher/Lewis. RAC needs to pull from his defensive roots and build an elite defensive team that is no longer the NFL's doormat.


Attitude is a definite issue... and this is where my opinion is strongest against DA. He resides in a leadership position on the team, so when he is smiling and joking after an interception/bad pass/three and out, he is setting the example for the rest of the team to follow.

Question: If you're a defensive player getting your butt kicked on the field, and you look over and see the QB laughing it up on the sidelines after a three and out, would you be more or less likely to give 100%?

Conversely, if you're a defensive player on the field and you look over and see your QB brooding and licking his chops for the next series, wouldn't you want to get the ball in his hands?

quote:

Originally posted by Versatile Dawg:

Coaching:

mismanagement of the clock:

without knowing the current protocol they follow, imo, the solution is for RAC to step up and hold TC & MT more accountable while making better decisions himself, although some of the problems lies with DA on O and S. Jones on D doing a better job managing the clock on the field, although Jones was not healthy and now he’s not there… as a matter of fact I don’t know what D player takes the lead on the field with S. Jones & McGinest out?

going for it or punting and going for the TD or the FG –

imo, it’s a fine line in taking chances on 4th, but when you need 1 TD, or several TD’s to even have a shot, you can’t just play it safe like RAC, if you are trying to win the game. RAC has played it safe far too many times... you know it’s like the ever annoying 3rd down pass play for 3 yards, when you need 11 yards for the first down

As angry as the Cowboy field goal made me, after re-watching the game a few weeks ago, I came to the conclusion of 3 things

1. RAC took the FG because he did not have confidence that DA would get the 1st down, as DA was not playing confident after all the overthrows, under throws and dropsies.

2. RAC felt Cowboys would have another easy TD and run up the score even more after our failed 1st down attempt, which could have been the final back breaker/momentum

3. RAC took the easy points and hoped it would spark the D but at the time I think he was forfeiting to the cowboys at that point.

Do I like it or agree, hell no, I think he should have called a time out and looked TC, DA, Jamal, BE, KW and the rest of the guys in the face and rallied those guys to take a stand with the game on the line, not playing it safe and forfeiting the game in front of the home crowd.

If RAC does not start thinking Do or Die at times like that, he will be doomed, although he did make some good decisions in similar games last year?

The Offensive Line:

imo, we are just screwed due to the injuries at this point, only way to fix it is for guys to get healthy

DA:

You mentioned he appeared to lose his confidence in the second half against Baltimore game, but the way I see it, it all started much earlier back when BE dropped that first TD pass in the cowboys game, if you have the tape of that game, just check out DA’s reaction, he just sits on the ground holding his head in disbelief, instead of bouncing up/having short term memory, he seems to dwell on that stuff too much, and as the drops have continued I think he's lost a lot more confidence in the receivers along with himself.

Good news, DA gets another shot tomorrow, so hopefully he can shake it off, but if his confidence is truly gone he doesn’t need to be out there

Braylon Edwards:

I pretty much agree with everything you had to say, although I do think some of his off the field contributions have been outstanding, but I am starting to question if he really cares or wants to be a Cleveland Brown?

S. Rogers

I totally disagree with your opinion on Rogers, can he improve? Yes, but imo, he is our best player defensive player out there. As far as the leadership thing, that falls on Phil for signing him. Going back to his reasons for slacking off in Detroit, he went public saying the Lions tried to force him into being a locker room leader, a vocal leader, a team capitan and all of that stuff, but he claims he made it clear that he never wants to be a leader, he also claims he can’t take all the snaps at his weight, and he does slack off when his team is losing. He came to Cleveland saying he just wants to do his job, play the background, and not be a leader. He even dropped his weight a bit, something he didn’t do in Detroit. Rogers said he was very happy to come to Cleveland who would accept him the way he is... not wanting to be a leader and all. Do I like it, NO, but Phil signed him knowing this, maybe he didn’t have any other choice as Rogers was the best available NT out there at the time, remember we snatched him from the Bengals. Imo, he is the best D player out there, and don’t forget, he’s played his whole pro career in the 4 -3, he’s still learning the 3 - 4. Yes, he can improve a lot, but I don’t think he’s a cancer.

Overall, I think the key injuries are the biggest reason why the O & D have failed to this point.

missing both starting safety’s from the preseason was a huge loss, as our backups cannot carry the load

Remember we had a drop off when Russell left and Jones & Pool were finally coming to their own last year, then we lose both of them… in the preseason. Very bad news.

On O, I feel DA’s concussion had a huge impact on shaking up any of the progress he made in the offseason, then you add Cribbs, BE, J.Lewis, JJ and Stallworth into the mix, those are the best players we have, and the supporting cast is not that good to step up in their absence. Hopefully everyone can get healthy at some point, but I wish Chud would try the No Huddle to get things going, especially if we are trying to establish the pass first, and no matter what, Jamal & Harrison need much more carries

Attitude:

Wins will improve the attitude, but if they keep losing it will get really bad, so far no signs of RAC losing teh locker room

jmho

GO BROWNS

This message has been edited. Last edited by: VegasDawgieDawg,

im not gonna go on a rant cuz a few of ur points were valid but i disagree with many too.
rogers has been our best player on defense and to say he doesnt try is ridculous. did u see the pitt game. hes a nt in a 3-4 what do u want from him hes not gonna have 15 sacks any season and the way he gets penatration is by the mixes of lb blitzes we get . the lb and k wimbley in particular are to blame for this .
defense as a whole cant tackle worth a crap but they have played pretty well considering they are on the feild nearly 3/4 of the game. the offense needs to help give this defense a rest. look at the pitt game where they actually ran the ball decently and moved the ball the defense was great. even against the run.
BE a cancer im not sure i see him as a cancer. but if u have a link that proves he is id like to see it.
all this stems from DA. as i read ur post i has a strange sense that u were trying to make excuses for DA. and i do agree with u we have had injuries. but then again so have the eagles matter of fact they have had their top 2 wr out and they have still played well. the injuries shouldnt matter yeah the line had been banged up that doesnt mean much when ur qb cant hit a wide open cribbs on a medium to long route(DAs strength). by the way he had plenty of time on that play. DA is supposed to be the leader of this team and he hasnt played like a leader. u have gotta help ur team. u cant throw hard passes when ur wr is 4 yards away. of the games ive watched which is all of them but i dvred through the balt game cuz it was ridculous. of those games DA hasnt put the ball in the right spots . on a few of those plays BE dropped passes they were bad passes. im gonna say this BE has sucked and dropped a few easy passes hes also dropped some passes that were terribly thrown.
what i think it is is that those wr are tired of bailing DA out on his bad passes and then getting crushed by the defense.
I dis agree and agree with sokme of ur comments. im not saying brady quinn is the answer although he very well could be. the fact is no matter who is at QB, they need to play better. we need a guy that can manage the game better. DA either need to step it up or step aside. many of the probs can be fixed by starting with the main leader of the team. the QB.

The reason where losing???? Wow... We dont have depth, some of our players have no heart, our coach is soft like a cupcake, injuries, and a brutal schedule. We had an easy one last year, so we built ourselves up to much on this year. Like the guy said before me. We get a top 10 pick and where good.. I think a crushing MLB would be the trick. I know we need cb's but you can pickup free agents for that issue.
We need a pep talk from the asian guy in the Major League 2, when he layed into Pedro for not having any balls, and said "you have no marbles"..

First of all, let me say that this is the BEST thread EVER concerning our team this year; I think it's grammatically correct with NO misspellings as well! VERY NICE JOB, Versatile Dawg! I also like the points that were made.

I disagree with him, however, on one point, mainly because I don't if it's *that* true; Is Shawn Rogers REALLY THAT BAD & Lazy, etc., etc, This was what everybody, from fans to the press, were asking since we picked him up, and I haven't seen any attitude problems with Rogers, myself.

OUR LINE IS AS POUROUS AS A SPONGE, but I don't know if that's ALL *his* fault. I think the whole D-line needs work.

Please do not quote the entire topic.
PPACEJR

In the matter of COACHING: I think you are right in that coaching includes making adjustments, our coaching staff does no seem to understand that at halftime most coaches make adjustments o to offense/defense. It has not happend here. "We're going to have to get better" is a given nd not a real answer to questions asked.

In the area of The O-LINE: I agree.

I The area of DA: I feel that he has to ake better decision, I have yetto see him make any adjustments at the linehe seems to simply call the play and pay no attention to the defense. I wonder if he can detect their changes. He throws passes that will get the receivers injured (Luckily Winslow was not hurt last week with the pass he threw late over the middle.

On the subject of BRAYLON EDWARDS: He just needs to concentrate ofcatching the ball again.

S. RODGERS: I don't agree that Rogers is lazy, but I do think that because of his size he needs plays off to keep him fresh.

INJURES: Everybody has injuries you have to win with what you have available.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Referee3,