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brownschat.clevelandbrowns.com Forums Main Index Pure Football Real Reasons We Are Losing Topic Closed|
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It has to start with the head coach. He's the man in charge. There's no other way.IMO
I know everyone will say not another rebuilding year and it doesn't have to be. There has to be accountability for continued mistakes and better teaching and preparation in mini camp, training camp and regular season. We have become very soft both mentally and physically. Browns fan since 1960. |
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Vers, all I know is Joe Thomas is a good kid.
Check this site out. I found this looking for pictures to try and change my sig. http://lukehomangolf.com/ http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=552406 This message has been edited. Last edited by: BpG,  -Two years, two Pro Bowls- |
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Going to quote the football genius John Madden - you have to score more points than the other team. It's that simple! Play Browns - play hard!
Cower - you have to improve over the course of the year. Play hard Browns this Monday, play HARD! |
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The real reason we are losing is cuz we ain't outscorin the other team.
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Heya, Versie. Ditch the other board, did ya? Sorta iffy about it after a disagreement with one of the Ref's.
Anyway, though we often have differing viewpoints, it's a smart read. Though I'm late to the party, you've made a few comments I'd like to reply to....
You probably knew the "why" to this even as you typed the comment. Injuries lead to a lack of continuity which leads to a lack of consistency and production. So it shouldn't surprise any of us that they aren't playing up to last year's gold standard. It'll come with time, though it's most likely we'll have run out of time by the time it happens (redundancy button OFF *L*). Incidently, that's also most likely why we're not going downfield more. I haven't watched every minute of every game, but during the games I've either watched or recorded THEN watched, it appears to me that DA's pocket on the three-stepper wouldn't be there on the five-stepper. That would explain why we're going with short throws, and why the defenses aren't going into deeper backpedals, leading to clogged running lanes and INT's such as the one where Lewis cracked Winslow.
Ya know, I'd emptied a bottle of ketchup in order to eat my helping of crow regarding my statements in the past indicating that Anderson was a bum who'd never be good. Well dagnabbit, just when I was happy to be wrong, Anderson goes into his late-season downward spiral, and continues it this season. Right now, he's the same guy we all saw in college who plays in cement shoes, makes ill-advised throws, and doesn't seem to have much presence. You're absolutely right. It's not all his fault, but some of it IS his fault. The injury/continuity bug was a viable reason for his failures during the first couple of games, but they are no longer reasons now, they are excuses. Still, benching him isn't a fix (but more on that in a sec).
The quintessential primmadonna......He clearly cares more about fame and fortune than he does about football, and it makes me sick. He's clearly not playing anywhere near to the same level he did last season. We all know it, so there's no need to go into detail about him. What I do know is this: When he does something good for the sake of the team, I'll cheer, but it won't be long before he's in another uniform, and I won't be sad to see him leave. He's the kind of spoiled-brat player who DEMANDS respect before it's EARNED. He didn't like it when fans of Cleveland got on him for being a Michigan player, and it's sat in his craw ever since. When he leaves.....and mark my words, it's sooner rather than later......he'll blame the fans for not "embracing him" early on in his career. Hey, Brat Edwards, respect is EARNED, not GIVEN. Instead of looking into a camera, try looking into a mirror. Maybe you'll figure it out then (but I ain't puttin' any money on it  ).
I think you're in the minute minority here, and couldn't disagree with you more. Rogers has been the one single player on this team that has met expectations. Maybe he doesn't go full-tilt at camp. I can't disagree because I wasn't there. What I do know is that if he doesn't NEED to go full tilt at camp to be effective, then he shouldn't, because as he gets near the back-end of his prime, he needs to save all the wear he can on that overgrown body. The times I've seen him "out of position" are when it appears to me that he's been asked to penetrate or slide within the scheme. When he's been asked to simply handle his two guys, he's been all over it.
I try and continue to view the defense as a work in progress, which helps me realize where things are at. Savage rebuilt the line to stop the run first, which is what he should have been doing. To that end, we've been better at it than at any point over the last decade. I think too many people expect the moves we made to suddenly make our defense formidable. Somewhere, I believe it was you who said many people are victims of their own false, optimistic hopes, buying into some undeserved hype in the preseason. On the other board, I made the statement that all the positive hype around the Browns should have been viewed as an affirmation that the moves Savage made were good ones, nothing more. The reason being because REAL people in the know understood that while we made good moves to solidify the line, we did jack-squat to help the linebackers. You know and I know that the line in the 3-4 are supposed to eat blockers, while the 'backers are supposed to make plays and pressure the QB. Well, IMHO, the line is doing their job, but our rush has been putrid. Facing facts, we don't have a single player in the 'backing corp that has more than one rush move, while many don't have any. So until Savage can fix that group the way he addressed the line, we're not going to be a good defense, as our iffy/young secondary will continue to be exposed by our lack of rush.
You know how I've felt about RAC for several years now. I've seen absolutely nothing.....including last year's 10-6 team......to make me feel as though my opinion is wrong. Now I won't go into my "Fire RAC" speech because though I want him gone, firing him NOW does absolutely nothing for the team. History shows you can't fire a coach in mid-season and suddenly become a winner. If we can him now, the front office is waving the white-flag, and the year is over. While we have a very small chance of making the playoffs, it's STILL a chance, so we have to maintain the course. The only legitimate reason to fire RAC now is if they want to take a long, extended look at Chud as a future HC candidate. I'd make it clear that I'm NOT for such a move, but rather that's simply the only reason I can think of to do it now. Now once the year is over, yeah, I'm gonna be on RAC like fat on......well, fat on RAC
As noted, firing RAC now makes no sense. That could change if we continue to lose and the team quits on him. There isn't a great indictment than that. However, setting that aside, Cowher wouldn't make sense unless we fired Savage as well, because Cowher will want ABSOLUTE power. Marty is a different story. It's my opinion that RAC isn't a strong enough presence to lead this team. He was a good guy for a team filled with youngsters, but he just isn't strong enough of a leader to bend the team to his will. Marty has proven to be a great coach who can lift a team up and make them better, even when they are good. Now I know about his playoff record. Quite frankly, it's a load of crap  I argued VEHEMENTLY against those who said Cowher wasn't good enough to win the big one, and I argued VEHEMENTLY against those who said Peyton Manning wasn't good enough to win the big one. Marty is the same way. It wasn't his fault what happened in Denver two decades ago. That belonged to Byner. Remember people, many good veteran head coaches were proven to be "good" with winning records, yet lynched because they weren't "good enough." Cowher and Coughlin proved otherwise. Marty is good enough. It's my opinion that this team needs a VETERAN head coach, not an unproven one. This is no longer a team of youngsters trying to learn the game. It's a team of veterans who need a strong.....STRONG.....presence to take them to another level.
You're right. It's too easy to point the finger at one single problem right now. We have several of them. Some can be fixed, some cannot. What I DO know is this: We weren't nearly as good as our 10-6 record indicated last year, and the fans HAVE been bamboozled by their own unrealistic expectations. Optimism versus realism.......sound like a familiar arguement coming from me?  One last comment on our QB situation. People that want Quinn in there are doing it for the sake of change. Nothing more. I understand hoping for a spark, but that doesn't mean it's the right move. Unfortunately, to this point, Quinn has shown jack-squat when it comes to making us believe he's ready for the job. While we still have a chance to make the playoffs, Anderson is the best qualified for the job. Once we stand ZERO chance of making the playoffs, THAT'S when it's time to sit him down and play Quinn. Eventually, we have to see which guy we're going with. If Anderson can't figure it out in the next game or two, our season is over and it's time to play Quinn. If he can figure it out, he's our guy. Either way, the problem works itself out, though that only solves one of the problems. /rant off  |
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Great post as usual Toad! Welcome back.
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Welcome Toad, good to see you make your way over here. I too have taken exception to a ref or two over "there".
-Two years, two Pro Bowls- |
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I think one thing we all may over look while giving our opinions. The VIBE of the TEAM is different than the tone we are currently speaking.
These guys are more upbeat with their current approach than say 4 - 5 weeks ago. Back then injuries, inconsistent play, etc. were apart of this team. But now they have a different direction with some momentum. This translate directly from all the positives they are feeding off of. Beating the Giants would do wonders for this City. We OWE New York that. |
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romeo and co. must go. |
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86 collins I promise if you use line breaks in your ramble ons I will read them. Till then, hey man I like your username.
 -Two years, two Pro Bowls- |
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I'm not ready to say RAC is the root of all evil (though, the thought has crossed my mind), but he certainly is playing his part. We have headcases (BE), we have a QB who appears to have lost his confidence. Though, at the end of the Bengals game, it did appear he regained some of that confidence, even if just a little. We have CHUD cutting the play-book in half, as we are no longer going down field. I truly believe that is the line's doing, does anybody have the tape of when DA got the concussion in pre-season, wasn't that a 5 step drop? Maybe CHUD's a little gunshy? Anyway, we have far too many problems to just pin it on just one guy.
We have DS on the sidelines since game 1, with a quad strain. Infamously pulling it in game 1 warm-ups. Truthfully, that makes me smack my head and wonder. Was that the bell tolling for this season? Imminent doom approaching? I remember after hearing that DS was hurt, I got a sick feeling in my stomach. Again, one of the reasons, but a part of the whole. I honestly do believe however, that the reason BE is the way he is - is maybe, just maybe all that talk about RAC coaching him last year, and him (BE) finally turning the corner on his antics.. was just that, talk. We were winning, and anybody likes to be apart of a winner. This coupled with his game-management, and very questionable booth reviews (also G-M) leads me to believe that plain and simple RAC is not a good coach. Remembering Woody Hayes, and him going for 2, instead of an extra point in a game against michigan (I think) -- a reporter once asked him, why he went for 2, instead of 1. Woody tells him, because 'I couldn't go for 3'. I want a coach like that. Not just like Woody per se, but a coach who understands rivarly, and tradition. Tradition, being the biggest of the two. 0-7 as a HC against the Steelers, 0-3 with at least comparable talent. I'm sorry Dawgs, that is inexcusable. But, this also translate to non-conference, and non-division teams as well. He is a passive coach, and passive is not what a Browns team needs. Especially with budding primadonna's such as BE. Finally, I am against getting rid of RAC until at least this season loses it's heartbeat. We could turn it around, but frankly, I do not see it happening. _________________________ It's time for a change at HC. No Moreo. |
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Being a long time fan from back in the early 50's but now living in Oregon. Most of my information is from this site. I think that attitude is one of the main problems. When certain players are in the news for doing bad things. This affects the way they view their reposnability towards the team. This would have not happened under Paul Brown. How one lives their daily lives, gives us a view into how they will play
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Can you make a short/long list of those players? I think the last time we had a problem was Bodden fighting with Airport Parking security as he was picking up family at the airport. ??? I'm confused by your post. JMH??? We've Built the Foundation. Will they come? Pioli n McDaniels Formula One |
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I am not confident that Romeo will ever be a good head coach but I give him credit for one thing. The Browns have very little off field problems as compared to the past under Butch Davis. Browns fan since 1960. |
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Hey Toad..............no, they ditched me.
Yep. I brought this up again after my original post. The OL has struggled somewhat, especially considering that we haven't relied on a lot of 5 step drops. We are going w/the 3-step drops and trying to get rid of it quick. What's really troubling is the fact that DA is still getting hit way too often. What would happen if he tried throwing deep more often?
I agree. He hasn't played very well. I've said that on several occasions. He needs to play better. My only point is that it is not all his fault and that other breakdowns have hindered his play. I want to add something here. I don't think DA is a game manager. If they are asking him to do that, they might as well move on. He is the type of qb who needs to attack the defense. He needs to throw it deep. He needs to take some chances. He will never be a game manager. But frankly, I've never thought much of guys who simply "manage" the game.
I've always thought BE would bolt first chance he got. I personally can't stand the guy. I've never liked guys who act like he does. Never. I hate Michigan, but it has nothing to do w/how I feel about Edwards. I will say that stupid excuse he uses bothers me though. Another thing about him that irks me. He doesn't ever own up. There is no accountability. Not once will he say he made a mistake or that he was at fault.
Yes, I am in the minority. I maintain that his play has been overvalued by the fan base. I see him get pushed out of plays on a regular basis. He is Big Money reincarnated. I will say that he did a much better job against the Bengals. I am not writing the guy off, but he has not performed nearly as well as people say he has. What troubles me is that we have BE on offense and Rogers on defense. Two bad apples.
Yes, and both you and I knew it was not enough. Now, some people will point to our top 10 ranking, but we both know that if we are in a tight game and this defense needs to stop somebody.......it ain't going to happen.
LOL........but, you are right. The unbridled enthusiasm of the fan base has actually been a negative. I predicted it would too. That is so because once reality set in, they fell a long way until they crashed. Now, they are sore, hurt, and angry. No one is safe from the mob.  Hey Toad.........you have any ideas on how we fix this thing? How do we improve the attitude? The discipline? What positions do we need to upgrade next year? I already know how you feel about the coach......LOL. |
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Sorry I know I'm not Toad and I'm sure he'll answer. But to answer your questions? WIN!! Pure and Simple, WIN!! Upgrade...lets fill in the missing pieces before we start stating this is broke n that. Missing: DL depth or competition for a starter, we need one more. LB...at least 2 more one inside one outside, depth and competition for starters. CB...we need one more don't think we will break the bank with a High Profile FA...I'm talking Draft to be our #4 behind EW, McD, Holley back, depth! FS...I think we got an excellent SS in Pool. I'll take his play over Jones (who is solid) any day but we need a FS. Draft or FA - I do agree with you about letting Russel go was a mistake but for different reasons. Not because "Pool is the worst Safety in the NFL". Offense...RT, draft a viable Interior OLman we can't ignore the OL. RB - we need a stud to replace Jamal, 09 is another strong draft year for RB. WR - Nothing high in investments. But we need somebody who is discipline - runs good routes and has excellent hands. This means because we are looking post first 2 rounds he will be of the 4.6 speed nature. Fine with me! But we need somebody with a little more talent than Sanders. QB...sorry Vers. I'm not sold on DA AT ALL! If BQ is not the ONE and the FO/Coaching staff knows this...then we need another. All I want is a very Accurate Passer with good footwork. He can have an average arm, average speed. This offense can be AWESOME with an accurate Passer. If not here...then go get one! JMHO We've Built the Foundation. Will they come? Pioli n McDaniels Formula One |
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Kinda amazing! tab, Toad, and Vers all getting along!!!
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I don't know...Toad hasn't said BOO to me in long time  I've always stated as long we keep it to Football and not emotions we do well - and the emotions I'm just as guilty as others. Thus is the way of a message board communication. All we have is the written word left to the readers emotional interpretations without an instantaneous response to mend misunderstandings as in face to face. But yeah...I hope when we go at each other in a difference of opinion we don't take it personal and keep it to football as I do enjoy the peace! We've Built the Foundation. Will they come? Pioli n McDaniels Formula One |
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I hope getting Stallworth back can help DA and the offense but it makes me wonder just how much Anderson misses Joe Jurevicius? He was our third down receiver last year and he just knows how to get open. Let's hope it gets better because the schedule gets even tougher from here on out. Go Browns!!!!!