I was a fan of Phil but, he traded away to many picks. He started off with a good plan but, when he smelled some success with the 10 wins he got all excited and traded a 3rd for Williams who doesn't fit the 3-4 defense. It was a great trade for Rogers but, the rest of his trades were bad. He traded up for Wimbley and although i like Wimbley he needed to stay put. He traded up for Rucker, bad move. Traded a 1st for Quinn, terrible move. Just some bad trades flat out and there's more. Mangini may not leave this team a winner but, it won't be a worse situation than Phil.

Do you actually think he cares for ""The Team,or his fans" or does he care more about a shrinking pocketbook, because people are getting wise and sick and tired of this mistake of a team and not spending their cash on games,merchandise and other browns items ??
The term A little to late "comes to mind when I read that article..
Sorry guy's,but I am losing faith real quick here...

quote:

Originally posted by TAP:
I was a fan of Phil but, he traded away to many picks. He started off with a good plan but, when he smelled some success with the 10 wins he got all excited and traded a 3rd for Williams who doesn't fit the 3-4 defense. It was a great trade for Rogers but, the rest of his trades were bad. He traded up for Wimbley and although i like Wimbley he needed to stay put. He traded up for Rucker, bad move. Traded a 1st for Quinn, terrible move. Just some bad trades flat out and there's more. Mangini may not leave this team a winner but, it won't be a worse situation than Phil.

Co-sign.

I think Phil had great intentions and even showed signs of being a good GM. Unfortunately, he traded away what helps build your team the best way, draft picks.

He really screwed up trading those picks for the 2008 draft, too. There was so much talent that came out that year. We could have had perfect slot receivers in either DeSean Jackson or Donnie Avery. We could have had a real contributer at almost any position, that draft was so loaded.

quote:

Originally posted by Crank:
Do you actually think he cares for ""The Team,or his fans" or does he care more about a shrinking pocketbook, because people are getting wise and sick and tired of this mistake of a team and not spending their cash on games,merchandise and other browns items ??
The term A little to late "comes to mind when I read that article..
Sorry guy's,but I am losing faith real quick here...

You're wrong! Bad choices doesn't mean he doesn't care. Everyone that's ever talked to Lerner or interviewed him says he cares a lot about the Browns. If he didn't care he wouldn't be paying all these guys he has fired he would of just kept them till their contracts ran out.

quote:

Originally posted by TAP:
I was a fan of Phil but, he traded away to many picks. He started off with a good plan but, when he smelled some success with the 10 wins he got all excited and traded a 3rd for Williams who doesn't fit the 3-4 defense. It was a great trade for Rogers but, the rest of his trades were bad. He traded up for Wimbley and although i like Wimbley he needed to stay put. He traded up for Rucker, bad move. Traded a 1st for Quinn, terrible move. Just some bad trades flat out and there's more. Mangini may not leave this team a winner but, it won't be a worse situation than Phil.

I agree.

We are bad yes, worse than expected yes, but come on, was anyone expecting 8 wins?


We now have 11 draft picks, high draft picks.


Every single player Mangini brought in plays hard and is a clear upgrade over the other option. Until Mangini starts trading away picks, over paying players and taking horrible gambles, I am with him.

11 drafts picks?

I am staying with that kind of plan all day.

I am all for adding a team President or even another talent-evaluator. I am also glad to hear from Mr. Lerner himself.

quote:

Originally posted by BpG:

quote:

Originally posted by TAP:
I was a fan of Phil but, he traded away to many picks. He started off with a good plan but, when he smelled some success with the 10 wins he got all excited and traded a 3rd for Williams who doesn't fit the 3-4 defense. It was a great trade for Rogers but, the rest of his trades were bad. He traded up for Wimbley and although i like Wimbley he needed to stay put. He traded up for Rucker, bad move. Traded a 1st for Quinn, terrible move. Just some bad trades flat out and there's more. Mangini may not leave this team a winner but, it won't be a worse situation than Phil.

I agree.

We are bad yes, worse than expected yes, but come on, was anyone expecting 8 wins?


We now have 11 draft picks, high draft picks.


Every single player Mangini brought in plays hard and is a clear upgrade over the other option. Until Mangini starts trading away picks, over paying players and taking horrible gambles, I am with him.

11 drafts picks?

I am staying with that kind of plan all day.

LOL i think i may have kinda got you and Chris to agree on something maybe. LOL. If so i'm marking it down on my calendar and i'm sending my name in for a Nobel Peace Prize.

I like that he can somewhat admit to the fact that he has no idea what he is doing as the owner. That is a huge step in trying to correct this team. It means that he wants to find a great football mind to help him and advise him.

On firing Mangini... do it and take Kolkinis and coaching staff (aside from Ryan) with him. I know we are still paying for Crennel and Savage but from what we have witnessed so far we are gonna be way worse if we stick with Mangini and Kolkinis. I know for a fact that Cowher or Gruden would know what to do with those draft picks we have next year.

I wonder where EO is i figured he'd have something to say about this development or whatever you want to call it.

quote:

Originally posted by BpG:

quote:

Originally posted by TAP:
I was a fan of Phil but, he traded away to many picks. He started off with a good plan but, when he smelled some success with the 10 wins he got all excited and traded a 3rd for Williams who doesn't fit the 3-4 defense. It was a great trade for Rogers but, the rest of his trades were bad. He traded up for Wimbley and although i like Wimbley he needed to stay put. He traded up for Rucker, bad move. Traded a 1st for Quinn, terrible move. Just some bad trades flat out and there's more. Mangini may not leave this team a winner but, it won't be a worse situation than Phil.

I agree.

We are bad yes, worse than expected yes, but come on, was anyone expecting 8 wins?


We now have 11 draft picks, high draft picks.


Every single player Mangini brought in plays hard and is a clear upgrade over the other option. Until Mangini starts trading away picks, over paying players and taking horrible gambles, I am with him.

11 drafts picks?

I am staying with that kind of plan all day.

Me too. I'm in...Go Browns!

quote:

Originally posted by Kdubya81:
I like that he can somewhat admit to the fact that he has no idea what he is doing as the owner. That is a huge step in trying to correct this team. It means that he wants to find a great football mind to help him and advise him.

On firing Mangini... do it and take Kolkinis and coaching staff (aside from Ryan) with him. I know we are still paying for Crennel and Savage but from what we have witnessed so far we are gonna be way worse if we stick with Mangini and Kolkinis. I know for a fact that Cowher or Gruden would know what to do with those draft picks we have next year.

I agree about Cowher possibly but, Gruden had some bad drafts worse than Mangini. No Thanks on Gruden he'll be in Washington anyways. Cowher doesn't want to come here anyways. Didn't last year and i doubt he changed his mind over the last year.

Everybody going with this keep Mangini line of thought keeps pulling the "11 draft picks" card...we've got 11 draft picks, blah blah blah.

Okay, with the rare exception of guys like Tom Brady, you win your championships in rounds 1 and 2 you get your depth and roster fillers in round 3 through 7. Now riddle me this Mangini fans, what's the ratio of picks for rounds 1 and 2 to the ones in round 3 to 7? I'm betting it's higher than 2:1. And riddle me this, do we have multiple first round picks? NO. (Late addition to this, I found out exactly what we have...you guys are gonna love this. 1 pick in round 1, 1 pick in round 2, 2 picks in round 3 [one of which could become a round 2 if Stonehands Headcase learns how to catch a ball 55 times but I don't see that happening] 1 in round 4, 3 in round 5, 2 in round 6 and 1 in round 7...so lets check the ratio...oh look at that, it's 4.5 picks for the later rounds to every one pick in the rounds where you win your championships. For those of you confused. NINE bench players versus TWO players who could be very good/great. And you call that good logic to keep a coach?)

Now you might be asking what I'm trying to prove by going here, but follow me for a second. Mangini traded away a #5 overall pick for 3 players, a 2nd and 5th...the 3 players of whom are only marginally (if that) better than what we had last year, and the second and 5th which neither brought us an impact player. No second first round pick this year for the Jets to jump 11 places...let me repeat that...ELEVEN places IN THE FIRST ROUND! Even Jerry Jones got a second first round pick from us to move up to get Quinn, and we moved up half that many spots in that draft. He also dealt one of the better TE's in the game from a receiving standpoint for a 2nd and a 5th, neither of which he spent on a need at the time, which would have been a Linebacker...

Point is, Mangini did not get enough for these trades he made. He could have gotten multiple picks from the Giants for Braylon around draft time, and gotten Mario Manningham, who I would easily take on this team at this point. Instead, he got 2 picks, and two throw ins from the Jets. (Granted Trusnik is showing some skill, but Stuckey has been non-existent for the most part)

And btw, people are saying we're going to get a second win against the Lions...I just say don't count on it. I think the Lions could beat this team right now.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ryry2897,

quote:

Originally posted by TR215:
In 1984 the Browns were 1-7 when Sam Rutigliano was fired and Defensive Coordinator Marty Schottenheimer replaced him.
Marty's team won 4 and lost 4 the second half of the season and three of the losses were by 3 points each.
Changing coaches in mid year made sense that year.

hard to argue with that!

who the heck is `in the building`? I mean there are smart people in the building that have been overlooked? lol

quote:

From todays game, Coleman, Ebram and Barton were our best players. That's just from today....the FACTS, are that every single player Mangini brought from his Jets are a CLEAR upgrade over what we had.

So last year we were WORSE than the 32nd ranked defense? That's what we're ranked now. Worst defense in the LEAGUE. So I might wait a bit before singing the praises of all the Jetbois Mangini has brought in. Elam is no prize, Barton may be smart but isn't all that talented, Coleman is a nice journeyman but Bowens isn't thrilling anyone. He brought in a boatload of journeymen. Not ONE game changer. Not ONE player that can take over a game and really make a difference. Rogers is the only guy we have that can do that on the D side and Savage brought him in so he's probably on the way out.
Where's this proof that these guys are better than what we had? I don't see it on the field OR in the stats. Different doesn't equate to better.

Mangini may have a plan(though our starting RB doesn't seem to know what it is), he may have acquired draft picks, but he lost me when he showed a yellow streak and put in Quinn with 3 minutes to go in the game. What a weenie thing to do. It insults BOTH quarterbacks and was pure spin. His excuse? "I wanted to get him some reps" *snicker*
Why didn't you go to Quinn before? "I thought we actually moved the ball at points [of the second half]," Mangini said. I thought we were moving the ball relatively effectively."

He thought we were moving the ball relatively effectively. The craptastic Offense we all witnessed in the second half today is "relatively effective" in our Head Coaches eyes.
In previous weeks he's "liked what he sees and is happy with our progress toward playing how we want".
BpG are YOU happy with our progress? Did YOU think we were moving the ball effectively in the second half? Did you think it a stroke of genius inserting Quinn with three minutes in the game to "get him some reps"?
This Coach has made mistake after mistake with the QB position this year. The stupid competition that resulted in nothing, pulling a guy after only 2 1/2 games after a system install DURING the competition. And now putting Quinn in with three minutes left for no good reason.
And true or not the perception league wide is he sat Quinn all this time to screw him out of incentives. Doesn't look good for future signings.

Add that to Jamal Lewis not knowing what's happening or what were trying to do? Mangini has LOST this team man. Lost it. These guys don't even know what the plan IS if one exists. How in the world can that be man?
Probably kept secret from them so no leaks can occur. Everything being so super duper secret and all.

quote:

Originally posted by BpG:

quote:

Originally posted by TAP:
I was a fan of Phil but, he traded away to many picks. He started off with a good plan but, when he smelled some success with the 10 wins he got all excited and traded a 3rd for Williams who doesn't fit the 3-4 defense. It was a great trade for Rogers but, the rest of his trades were bad. He traded up for Wimbley and although i like Wimbley he needed to stay put. He traded up for Rucker, bad move. Traded a 1st for Quinn, terrible move. Just some bad trades flat out and there's more. Mangini may not leave this team a winner but, it won't be a worse situation than Phil.

I agree.

We are bad yes, worse than expected yes, but come on, was anyone expecting 8 wins?


We now have 11 draft picks, high draft picks.


Every single player Mangini brought in plays hard and is a clear upgrade over the other option. Until Mangini starts trading away picks, over paying players and taking horrible gambles, I am with him.

11 drafts picks?

I am staying with that kind of plan all day.

ok, lets see,

David Veikune doesnt play

Brian Robiskie has maybe one catch

Massaquoi is definitely not an upgrade over Edwards,

Our TE's are useless

We trade winslow & release rucker and brought in a bunch of trash

Don Carey is gone

Hank Poteat - would not have made the team last year

Kevin Shaffer was far superior to St. Clair, and thats saying something

S Jones is better than A Elam

The QBs have regressed

Andra Davis looks to be doin pretty good in Denver, Barton, not so good


yes i see upgrades all over the place

quote:

Originally posted by greendawg:

yes i see upgrades all over the place

yeah no kidding...all these upgrades that a few posters keep telling us we got is killing us.

Not a good sign of all the upcoming upgrades we will get in the 2010 draft.

quote:

Originally posted by ryry2897:
Everybody going with this keep Mangini line of thought keeps pulling the "11 draft picks" card...we've got 11 draft picks, blah blah blah.

Okay, with the rare exception of guys like Tom Brady, you win your championships in rounds 1 and 2 you get your depth and roster fillers in round 3 through 7. Now riddle me this Mangini fans, what's the ratio of picks for rounds 1 and 2 to the ones in round 3 to 7? I'm betting it's higher than 2:1. And riddle me this, do we have multiple first round picks? NO. (Late addition to this, I found out exactly what we have...you guys are gonna love this. 1 pick in round 1, 1 pick in round 2, 2 picks in round 3 [one of which could become a round 2 if Stonehands Headcase learns how to catch a ball 55 times but I don't see that happening] 1 in round 4, 3 in round 5, 2 in round 6 and 1 in round 7...so lets check the ratio...oh look at that, it's 4.5 picks for the later rounds to every one pick in the rounds where you win your championships. For those of you confused. NINE bench players versus TWO players who could be very good/great. And you call that good logic to keep a coach?)

Last year we had 1 4th round pick. We traded down and acquired a lot of players who fit the depth of the 3-5 round picks that Savage threw away. This team had no depth. By the way - how'd you expect us to get so many 1st and 2nds this year? It wasn't possible. We have 2 young, talented WR who've been dealing with the most inept QB to ever play the game. We also acquired a LBer who looked good in his limited time yesterday in Vekeune. The defense plays their tails off for Rob Ryan. The weak link, as I stated after game 1, is BRian Daboll - it's become obvious the offense hates playing for him.

quote:

Now you might be asking what I'm trying to prove by going here, but follow me for a second. Mangini traded away a #5 overall pick for 3 players, a 2nd and 5th...the 3 players of whom are only marginally (if that) better than what we had last year, and the second and 5th which neither brought us an impact player.

The 3 players he brought in were an upgrade over Sean Jones, a major upgrade on the DL and a 3rd string QB so we didn't waste a late pick on one. As for impact player - it's 8 games into the season. We haven't had a real QB play yet so you can't judge the WR too well. Vekuene - see above - he's also leaning 2 new positions.

quote:

No second first round pick this year for the Jets to jump 11 places...let me repeat that...ELEVEN places IN THE FIRST ROUND! Even Jerry Jones got a second first round pick from us to move up to get Quinn,

So you are using the inept Phil Savage - who traded away a 3rd round pick to move up in round 4 - as an example?

quote:

and we moved up half that many spots in that draft. He also dealt one of the better TE's in the game from a receiving standpoint for a 2nd and a 5th, neither of which he spent on a need at the time, which would have been a Linebacker...

So we got rid of a guy on an 0-7 team (great impact huh?) and you don't think WR was a need? We had a guy in Edwards who wasn't going to be here, a guy who ran over somebody so there was no way he was playing this year - we had nothing at the position. It was a need.

quote:

Point is, Mangini did not get enough for these trades he made. He could have gotten multiple picks from the Giants for Braylon around draft time, and gotten Mario Manningham, who I would easily take on this team at this point.

110% speculation. That was 110% a rumor.

quote:

Instead, he got 2 picks, and two throw ins from the Jets. (Granted Trusnik is showing some skill, but Stuckey has been non-existent for the most part)

Stuckey is in a new offense with a horrid QB. What kind of impact did you expect him to have? Anderson throws the ball all over the place - never in the same spot twice.

quote:

And btw, people are saying we're going to get a second win against the Lions...I just say don't count on it. I think the Lions could beat this team right now.

Good for you for thinking that. We'll find out in the 2nd half of the year. Major changes needed - Daboll needs canned immediately and Anderson needs benched. Then you'll see an upgrade on the offense.

quote:

Originally posted by Soup:

Good for you for thinking that. We'll find out in the 2nd half of the year. Major changes needed - Daboll needs canned immediately and Anderson needs benched. Then you'll see an upgrade on the offense.

Funniest post evah! As if two little changes could turn the corner ..LMAO *gulp*

quote:

Originally posted by BpG:

quote:

Originally posted by TAP:
I was a fan of Phil but, he traded away to many picks. He started off with a good plan but, when he smelled some success with the 10 wins he got all excited and traded a 3rd for Williams who doesn't fit the 3-4 defense. It was a great trade for Rogers but, the rest of his trades were bad. He traded up for Wimbley and although i like Wimbley he needed to stay put. He traded up for Rucker, bad move. Traded a 1st for Quinn, terrible move. Just some bad trades flat out and there's more. Mangini may not leave this team a winner but, it won't be a worse situation than Phil.

I agree.

We are bad yes, worse than expected yes, but come on, was anyone expecting 8 wins?


We now have 11 draft picks, high draft picks.


Every single player Mangini brought in plays hard and is a clear upgrade over the other option. Until Mangini starts trading away picks, over paying players and taking horrible gambles, I am with him.

11 drafts picks?

I am staying with that kind of plan all day.

He had a great plan for the Qb situation right??

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

Originally posted by Soup:

Good for you for thinking that. We'll find out in the 2nd half of the year. Major changes needed - Daboll needs canned immediately and Anderson needs benched. Then you'll see an upgrade on the offense.

Funniest post evah! As if two little changes could turn the corner ..LMAO *gulp*

YEs, they could in a big way. Daboll lacks direction. Bring in a solid OC who runs the ball and give him a QB with some accuracy and good routes drawn up and we'll be alright. The defense has 16 sacks this year in 8 games - compared with 17 all last year. the D doesn't quit ever. Keep them off the field and they'll be better off. Last week was 12 guys having the flu and very little practice - Look at the Pittsburgh and Chicago game - the Browns gave up 57 points in those 2 games. 7 of those directly off a turnover - so that's 50 on the dfense - WHILE DEALING WITH 8 TURNOVERS!!!! Yesterday - in 7 trips in the red zone - Chicago got 2 TDs. They said in half 1 alone Chicago ran 20 plays in Browns territory. the offense is the problem big time the defense plays their tails off.

Bye week game plan.
Fire Daboll. Strip Mangini of all duties that don't involve being a Head Coach. Let him earn the right to have more power and concentrate on preparing and coaching the game. Start preparing Quinn to be the QB for the rest of the year. I think we may see what Bernie was brought in for in the next 2 weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by Soup:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

Originally posted by Soup:

Good for you for thinking that. We'll find out in the 2nd half of the year. Major changes needed - Daboll needs canned immediately and Anderson needs benched. Then you'll see an upgrade on the offense.

Funniest post evah! As if two little changes could turn the corner ..LMAO *gulp*

YEs, they could in a big way. Daboll lacks direction. Bring in a solid OC who runs the ball and give him a QB with some accuracy and good routes drawn up and we'll be alright. The defense has 16 sacks this year in 8 games - compared with 17 all last year. the D doesn't quit ever. Keep them off the field and they'll be better off. Last week was 12 guys having the flu and very little practice - Look at the Pittsburgh and Chicago game - the Browns gave up 57 points in those 2 games. 7 of those directly off a turnover - so that's 50 on the dfense - WHILE DEALING WITH 8 TURNOVERS!!!! Yesterday - in 7 trips in the red zone - Chicago got 2 TDs. They said in half 1 alone Chicago ran 20 plays in Browns territory. the offense is the problem big time the defense plays their tails off.

*Gulp* The defense gave up 30. Yep their tail is missing alright

Take my word on it. A new OC and even a HOF bound QB is not going to change much right now in Cleveland.

quote:

Originally posted by BpG:
Well first of all I reported, the guy who basically called me a moron.


Bradyz,

Seriously, when you can make a coherent though I might debate with you. For now, you can run your smear campaign about how smsrt you are and how everyone else doesn't know what they are talking about.

The FACTS are that the ONLY Players that you can honestly say are better than what Mangini brought with him are Joe Thomas and Dquell Jackson.


From todays game, Coleman, Ebram and Barton were our best players. That's just from today....the FACTS, are that every single player Mangini brought from his Jets are a CLEAR upgrade over what we had.


So when you can make a coherent though and get the facts, not just a whiny, crying rant, you can come and debate with me.

The players Mangini brought in were better than the ones who were here? Seriously?

-What about Kellen Winslow? Robert Royal looks better than him. Hell, Martin Rucker is better than Royal.
-Braylon Edwards isn't near as good as Stuckey, right?
-Andra Davis has to be worse than Barton.
-Elam has to be better than Sean Jones.
-St. Clair is lighting people up.

Give me a break!... but seriously, if you think the players this year are better, then why are they not winning? Maybe its because Mangini is a terrible coach? Crennel was much better than Mangini. At least players came to play for him.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Phillips:

quote:

Originally posted by TAP:
If he would have kept those 2 stud playmakers on offense we might have 2 wins instead of 1. I can understand sticking up for Winslow but, Edwards quit on this team before the season started pretty much. Those dropped passes must excite everyone.

I do agree that Edwards' drops were starting to wear my patience thin. However, who's to say he wouldn't have become a stud had the Browns kept Winslow to compliment him? Mangini screwed this team up the second he decided on trading Winslow.

I don't get you fans. On a team void of talent, you want to pay K2 and make the HIGHEST PAID TE IN NFL HISTORY!? K2 is not worth the 40 some odd million dollars he got paid period. He has had surgery for like years straight. He will probably be out of football in four years. And obviously Edrwards was leaving at years end anyway....and we stunk with him anyway. He cost us (Quinn) several turnovers.

I am really tired of everyoen blaming Kok for trading these guys to stock up draft picks. That is exactly what rebuilding teams are SUPPOSED to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Phillips:

quote:

Originally posted by TAP:
If he would have kept those 2 stud playmakers on offense we might have 2 wins instead of 1. I can understand sticking up for Winslow but, Edwards quit on this team before the season started pretty much. Those dropped passes must excite everyone.

I do agree that Edwards' drops were starting to wear my patience thin. However, who's to say he wouldn't have become a stud had the Browns kept Winslow to compliment him? Mangini screwed this team up the second he decided on trading Winslow.

Edwards is not going to turn it around he is a bum who cries about ooh the fans boo me. The fans would've carried him on there shoulders if he could do his job. It is also funny because what has he done since being with the Jets.? Guess what a good Monday night game that is it. I dont' balme Mangini for getting rid of him he is an overpaid stiff. He has all the talent except he can't catch.

quote:

Originally posted by TAP:
I was a fan of Phil but, he traded away to many picks. He started off with a good plan but, when he smelled some success with the 10 wins he got all excited and traded a 3rd for Williams who doesn't fit the 3-4 defense. It was a great trade for Rogers but, the rest of his trades were bad. He traded up for Wimbley and although i like Wimbley he needed to stay put. He traded up for Rucker, bad move. Traded a 1st for Quinn, terrible move. Just some bad trades flat out and there's more. Mangini may not leave this team a winner but, it won't be a worse situation than Phil.

He did not trade up for Wimbley. Baltimore and Cle switched places. Baltimore thought we were going to draft Gnauta so they traded with us to get him. They were one spot below us. They drafted Gnauta and we took Wimbley.

I'm just amazed that any fans are still complaining about the Winslow and Edwards trades..if anything those were Mangini/Kokonis best moves. My biggest issue with Mangini is how he continues to play Anderson and still leaves Dabol here, that makes no sense.

GREAT POST!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Spiritbro77:
Mangini may have a plan(though our starting RB doesn't seem to know what it is), he may have acquired draft picks, but he lost me when he showed a yellow streak and put in Quinn with 3 minutes to go in the game. What a weenie thing to do. It insults BOTH quarterbacks and was pure spin. His excuse? "I wanted to get him some reps" *snicker*
Why didn't you go to Quinn before? "I thought we actually moved the ball at points [of the second half]," Mangini said. I thought we were moving the ball relatively effectively."

He thought we were moving the ball relatively effectively. The craptastic Offense we all witnessed in the second half today is "relatively effective" in our Head Coaches eyes.
In previous weeks he's "liked what he sees and is happy with our progress toward playing how we want".
BpG are YOU happy with our progress? Did YOU think we were moving the ball effectively in the second half? Did you think it a stroke of genius inserting Quinn with three minutes in the game to "get him some reps"?
This Coach has made mistake after mistake with the QB position this year. The stupid competition that resulted in nothing, pulling a guy after only 2 1/2 games after a system install DURING the competition. And now putting Quinn in with three minutes left for no good reason.
And true or not the perception league wide is he sat Quinn all this time to screw him out of incentives. Doesn't look good for future signings.

Add that to Jamal Lewis not knowing what's happening or what were trying to do? Mangini has LOST this team man. Lost it. These guys don't even know what the plan IS if one exists. How in the world can that be man?
Probably kept secret from them so no leaks can occur. Everything being so super duper secret and all.

Good thoughts,but we could've gotten better piks for them,or maybe even Manningham for BE

quote:

Originally posted by Savage is God:

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Phillips:

quote:

Originally posted by TAP:
If he would have kept those 2 stud playmakers on offense we might have 2 wins instead of 1. I can understand sticking up for Winslow but, Edwards quit on this team before the season started pretty much. Those dropped passes must excite everyone.

I do agree that Edwards' drops were starting to wear my patience thin. However, who's to say he wouldn't have become a stud had the Browns kept Winslow to compliment him? Mangini screwed this team up the second he decided on trading Winslow.

I don't get you fans. On a team void of talent, you want to pay K2 and make the HIGHEST PAID TE IN NFL HISTORY!? K2 is not worth the 40 some odd million dollars he got paid period. He has had surgery for like years straight. He will probably be out of football in four years. And obviously Edrwards was leaving at years end anyway....and we stunk with him anyway. He cost us (Quinn) several turnovers.

I am really tired of everyoen blaming Kok for trading these guys to stock up draft picks. That is exactly what rebuilding teams are SUPPOSED to do.

quote:

Originally posted by OrlandoDawg:
I'm just amazed that any fans are still complaining about the Winslow and Edwards trades..if anything those were Mangini/Kokonis best moves. My biggest issue with Mangini is how he continues to play Anderson and still leaves Dabol here, that makes no sense.

First and foremost it shows our inability to retain talent. How are we going to improve if we don’t resign our best players?

Second, it took us ages to find talented receivers that we have now traded for low picks and scrub players. This were 2 first round picks and with then were thrown away tons of work and several years of development.

Third, it burned the bridge for our remarkable 2007 season. We have now lost most of our best offense since 1999.

Forth, we traded and yet failed to show any signs of improvement. The players we brought in are average at best and not contributing. We have not reinforced any area of the team with those trades. No alternative was created, namely we didn’t sign any stellar RB, to our big loss in the passing game.

Fifth, if you try to do the same thing with other team (Arizona for example), and offer them some scrub plauers and a 3rd round pick, they would laugh at us.

If Randy wants to fire anyone....he should fire the person who hired this coach and regime. Oh wait....

Randy Lerner being upset is pathetic. YOU hired him. YOU are responsible. STOP making the coach or GM the scapegoat Randy. There were plenty of reasons floating around to NOT hire Mangini, yet you still did it. Show some ACCOUNTABILITY or sell the team. TELL US what's going on in Berea. If you can't have patience with YOUR HIRINGS then you shouldn't expect the fans to have patience with your continued incompetence. YOU ARE LOSING ME AS A FAN, not this regime or the next regime YOU HIRE.

At least give Mangini another season to make some of us believe you have some semblence of the ability to hire the right people. If its a failure...then SO ARE YOU. SELL THE TEAM if it comes to that please.

In hindsight it looks like maybe you should have hired a Pioli/McDaniels regime, but only time will tell....

To our fans.....Lerner is fooling you again. Lerner doesn't get "it". He gets his checks in the mail, and that makes him happy. If you guys buy this fire GM and head coach nonsense every few seasons shame on you...

Like BPG said....Lerner has no clue if he fires Mangini. And If he does, I have ZERO CONFIDENCE in him to find good replacements.

quote:

Originally posted by SDel_Brown:
If Randy wants to fire anyone....he should fire the person who hired this coach and regime. Oh wait....

You set down the koolaid! Good for u.

quote:

Lerner has no clue if he fires Mangini. And If he does, I have ZERO CONFIDENCE in him to find good replacements.

Oh IC u just went for a different flavor?

Mangini was the wrong choice. Don't act so suprized.

quote:

Originally posted by greendawg:

quote:

Originally posted by BpG:

quote:

Originally posted by TAP:
I was a fan of Phil but, he traded away to many picks. He started off with a good plan but, when he smelled some success with the 10 wins he got all excited and traded a 3rd for Williams who doesn't fit the 3-4 defense. It was a great trade for Rogers but, the rest of his trades were bad. He traded up for Wimbley and although i like Wimbley he needed to stay put. He traded up for Rucker, bad move. Traded a 1st for Quinn, terrible move. Just some bad trades flat out and there's more. Mangini may not leave this team a winner but, it won't be a worse situation than Phil.

I agree.

We are bad yes, worse than expected yes, but come on, was anyone expecting 8 wins?


We now have 11 draft picks, high draft picks.


Every single player Mangini brought in plays hard and is a clear upgrade over the other option. Until Mangini starts trading away picks, over paying players and taking horrible gambles, I am with him.

11 drafts picks?

I am staying with that kind of plan all day.

ok, lets see,

David Veikune doesnt play

Brian Robiskie has maybe one catch

Massaquoi is definitely not an upgrade over Edwards,

Our TE's are useless

We trade winslow & release rucker and brought in a bunch of trash

Don Carey is gone

Hank Poteat - would not have made the team last year

Kevin Shaffer was far superior to St. Clair, and thats saying something

S Jones is better than A Elam

The QBs have regressed

Andra Davis looks to be doin pretty good in Denver, Barton, not so good


yes i see upgrades all over the place

Ok, let's see.....with an objective view, not a whiney, crying fans perspective.


David Veikue is a late 2nd round linebacker converting from Defensive end.....and yeah he does play....did you watch yesterdays game? the difference is that GOOD TEAMS aren't FORCED to play 2nd round projects.


Brian Robiskie, while he isn't good right now......he is better than Donte Stallworth, who cannot play, great signing there and you want to bash mangini...lol...he is a rookie WR and not even the great ones are great in their rookie years.....it takes 3 years for WR's

Massoquoi, I would argue is better than Braylon, he goes over the middle, and isn't afraid to catch he ball, he isn;t dogging it, has a good attitude and FOR A ROOKIE is light years ahead of Braylon Edwards.

We trade Winslow and he gets $40 million dollars and is a SHADOW of his former shelf....have you been following him, or just complaining ???I bet it;s the ladder. Rucker was a bust, could not block, he was a big slow WR, so forget it he wasn't good.

Hank Poteat would not have made the team last year? Ok, now I know your just crying, Poteat isn't good but he isn't getting beat like a rented mule like that clown we got from Jacksonville last season.....or have your forgotten how he was getting beat every 3rd down last year? Yep your just complaining....or don't know what your talking about, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say your just complaining.

Kevin Schaeffer is a backup in Chicago....and you saw how great their O-line is....THE BROWNS were getting pressure on Cutler.....so stop it, your wrong.


Sean Jones is better than Elam? really? Where is Sean Jones starting? Oh wait.....where is Sean Jones.... a backup and in case you have not noticed....Abraham Elam is our best Safety....a CLEAR upgrade over the Injured, busted knee backup inSean Jones.....the casual fan loves to forget that Sean Jones was never the same after his knee injury....and only got a 1 year contract on the open market.

The Qb's have regressed....really? Because we had so much time to really see Brady Quinn? The QB's haven't regressed....we just traded Edwards, Winslow and Stallworth killed a man....we have to play rookies and Mike Furrey.....the QB's haven't regressed.....the talent around them have and it needed to be done.....sorry you don't like it.


Andra Davis is on a good team and in case you didn't notice Eric Barton 58 tackles > Andra Davis 47 tackles.


Since we are talking Broncos, I find it hilarious that everyone is all but kissing Josh McDaniel's feet and ready tor un Mangini out of town, when they are essentially doing the same exact thing. Trading malcontents for draft picks....the only difference is that McDaniel's had more talent on the Broncos than we do on the Browns. It is basically the same thing, but people are too blind with rage to see it.


Sorry guys, your wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

Originally posted by Soup:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

Originally posted by Soup:

Good for you for thinking that. We'll find out in the 2nd half of the year. Major changes needed - Daboll needs canned immediately and Anderson needs benched. Then you'll see an upgrade on the offense.

Funniest post evah! As if two little changes could turn the corner ..LMAO *gulp*

YEs, they could in a big way. Daboll lacks direction. Bring in a solid OC who runs the ball and give him a QB with some accuracy and good routes drawn up and we'll be alright. The defense has 16 sacks this year in 8 games - compared with 17 all last year. the D doesn't quit ever. Keep them off the field and they'll be better off. Last week was 12 guys having the flu and very little practice - Look at the Pittsburgh and Chicago game - the Browns gave up 57 points in those 2 games. 7 of those directly off a turnover - so that's 50 on the dfense - WHILE DEALING WITH 8 TURNOVERS!!!! Yesterday - in 7 trips in the red zone - Chicago got 2 TDs. They said in half 1 alone Chicago ran 20 plays in Browns territory. the offense is the problem big time the defense plays their tails off.

*Gulp* The defense gave up 30. Yep their tail is missing alright

Take my word on it. A new OC and even a HOF bound QB is not going to change much right now in Cleveland.

So what you are saying is that if Peyton Manning throws 5 interceptions that are all returned for TDs and they lose 35-7, Indy's defense sucks for giving up 35 points? Interesting logic there. It's nice that you hate the Browns so much that you pin points on the defense when the other team scores while the D is on the bench.

quote:

Originally posted by cjustus10:

quote:

Originally posted by BpG:
Well first of all I reported, the guy who basically called me a moron.


Bradyz,

Seriously, when you can make a coherent though I might debate with you. For now, you can run your smear campaign about how smsrt you are and how everyone else doesn't know what they are talking about.

The FACTS are that the ONLY Players that you can honestly say are better than what Mangini brought with him are Joe Thomas and Dquell Jackson.


From todays game, Coleman, Ebram and Barton were our best players. That's just from today....the FACTS, are that every single player Mangini brought from his Jets are a CLEAR upgrade over what we had.


So when you can make a coherent though and get the facts, not just a whiny, crying rant, you can come and debate with me.

The players Mangini brought in were better than the ones who were here? Seriously?

-What about Kellen Winslow? Robert Royal looks better than him. Hell, Martin Rucker is better than Royal.

Is that why Rucker isn't on any active roster in the NFL? Winslow has more pass catching talent - of course - his team is 0-7. He's a real impact player though!

quote:

-Braylon Edwards isn't near as good as Stuckey, right?

Stuckey is 10 times th WR Braylon is when BRaylon doesn't want to play - Braylon didn't want to play in Cleveland, that's evident.

quote:

-Andra Davis has to be worse than Barton.

Davis was a free agent, he wasn't cut.

quote:

-Elam has to be better than Sean Jones.

Whose Sean Jones start for? Oh, that's right - no one.

quote:

-St. Clair is lighting people up.

You do realize that Shaffer is a BACK-UP in Chicago right?

quote:

Originally posted by Soup:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

Originally posted by Soup:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

Originally posted by Soup:

Good for you for thinking that. We'll find out in the 2nd half of the year. Major changes needed - Daboll needs canned immediately and Anderson needs benched. Then you'll see an upgrade on the offense.

Funniest post evah! As if two little changes could turn the corner ..LMAO *gulp*

YEs, they could in a big way. Daboll lacks direction. Bring in a solid OC who runs the ball and give him a QB with some accuracy and good routes drawn up and we'll be alright. The defense has 16 sacks this year in 8 games - compared with 17 all last year. the D doesn't quit ever. Keep them off the field and they'll be better off. Last week was 12 guys having the flu and very little practice - Look at the Pittsburgh and Chicago game - the Browns gave up 57 points in those 2 games. 7 of those directly off a turnover - so that's 50 on the dfense - WHILE DEALING WITH 8 TURNOVERS!!!! Yesterday - in 7 trips in the red zone - Chicago got 2 TDs. They said in half 1 alone Chicago ran 20 plays in Browns territory. the offense is the problem big time the defense plays their tails off.

*Gulp* The defense gave up 30. Yep their tail is missing alright

Take my word on it. A new OC and even a HOF bound QB is not going to change much right now in Cleveland.

So what you are saying is that if Peyton Manning throws 5 interceptions that are all returned for TDs and they lose 35-7, Indy's defense sucks for giving up 35 points? Interesting logic there. It's nice that you hate the Browns so much that you pin points on the defense when the other team scores while the D is on the bench.

Yah it's nice to point out a defense that would be poor to terrible on any other team in the NFL. But due to the total breakdown and failure of the Brown's...........................but, but, but, the "d" is great.

It is so funny, because as bad as it seems, the fans would be even more upset when Braylon left for Free Agency and we got nothing, Kellen Winslow go a huge contract and wasn't playing.

They would all be screaming about how dumb the FO is for not trading these guys.

11 draft picks

From the looks of it, really high draft picks.

That's how you build a team....

not signing clowns like Donte Stallwoth to 7 year contracts.


I like this plan, now if we bust all the draft picks then it means nothing, but I like the plan.

They will never admit it BPG-

some people are just happy complaining.

If you know anything about the NFL you know teams are built through the draft.