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brownschat.clevelandbrowns.com Forums Main Index Pure Football Randy Lerner "...Mangini's job safe for now..."|
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You must not have watched the game because, the defense played good enough to win. Even the announcers that were ragging on the Browns all game said the defense played good and deserved a better fate. They played terrible against the Packers but, that wasn't the case yesterday. I'm sure you just look at stats after the game is over and assume they didn't play good instead of actually watching the game. Holmgren GM/President and Mariucci or Gruden Head Coach. |
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Most people seem to think that Lerner, NFL owners, rich people in general have a limitless amount of money to blow. The fact is Randy still has a lot he has to pay RAC and Phil...I think something like 30 million. It does not make business sense to dump Mangini...especially when it is not am indisputable fact he is the problem.
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As far as I am concerned, anyone who realizes what a jerk off Braylon Edwards was knows what they are doing!!!! Then to get draft picks for him....FREAKING SMART MAN! In b4 "but we would have scored a few more TD's with Braylon" We still would suck.  Two Years, Two Pro Bowls. |
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i agree. my fellow browns fans, don't you remember that joke of a draft that mangini had?? this guy is a joke! he is just as bad as romeo. he has never even played...he is friggin' ball boy!! wake up fans!! do you want to remain fans of the most embarrasing franchise in the league. things need to change immediately! fans should boycott the rest of the games to send a message to the organization and those that go...don't forget your brown paper bags! |
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Cause that will teach em.
Buy tickets, then wear paper bags. BradyZ, you going to respond to me, or just talk a bunch of trash then hide when I present the FACTS??? Two Years, Two Pro Bowls. |
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i don't have to time to respond to type a long reply to your opinion but I'm not complaining. I don't get much joy from seeing a guy lose his job but in my opinion there have been far more downgrades than upgrades, and yes ive seen winslow play much better than any of our TE's or receivers this season. not his fault he was traded to a team just as bad as ours. the bottom line is, the product on the field is inferior to what we had last year by some distance. MANGINI is responsible for the playing side of things and the personnel involved! he should be held accountable |
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Just so I have this right.
You won't take the time to be objective and really analyze what was left here, and what was brought in from a players standpoint, but you are willing to run the guy out of town? LMAO Typical......just answer me one question, that's all I will ask of you. When was the last time the Browns fired a coach and things got better? Two Years, Two Pro Bowls. |
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Please people give the man some time. I know you all love the Browns as do I and our team sucks this year.
The guys Mangini brought in are not meant to be long term starters just depth and foundation. He had to tear this team down in order to rebuild it. This team was BAD and had no depth at any position. Most of our starters are nothing more than good back ups. It will take some time to fix this team and I think its being done the right way. The only person I feel should lose his job is the OC. This team is not ready for a fanchise QB or RB. The OL needs fixed before we get either of those. The D needs some serious upgrades at nearly every position. The team will get better but you have to give it time. This is the first time any one tried to rebuild the Browns the right way. Through the draft and from the bottom of the roster up.You build the trenches and work your way out. When the OL or DL sucks it is pointless to get a star player in any other position. |
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You can't give a coach time if the players are not playing for him.... You can't cut 20-30 guys so the quick fix is to dump the coach. I have no problem them dumping Mangini, he has no, zero, zip, nada social skills with the media and the fans. The fans are Golden in Cleveland and if you don't relate with them, your gone. Just like Bill Belichik
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actually when Sam Rutigliano was fired and replaced by DC Marty Shottenheimer, things improved greatly. He went 4-4 the rest of the year. finished 8-8 the next year, won the division and took Miami into the final minutes before losing 21-24. Had the Browns won that game, they would've hosted the AFC Championship game that year vs the Patriots as the PATS beat the Raiders on the same weekend. then we all know Marty continued the sucess with 3 more playoff trips, including 2 AFC Central Crowns. Marty then got stubborn because he did not want to hire a OC (after Infante left) and Modell sent him away. The rest is history. |
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I'm totally at a loss. I don't know if Mangini should stay or go, all I know is our record indicates we are playing worse offensively than last year. Of course our defense is going to get tired when they're on the field for 45 minutes.
The dude does not abide, man. |
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I really couldnt care less how Mangini treats the media or the fans. And the Browns dont need a "quick fix". A quick fix is whats got this team is such a bad situation now. To be honest there is NO quick fix for the Browns. Bill Belichik seems like a pretty good coach to me. I dont think NE fans care if he's not the social type or that he's secretive. I wouldnt mind him as a HC for our Browns but we probly shouldnt even entertain that thought because he doesnt relate well with the fans or media. LOL |
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Outstanding --- signs of an awful franchise: Hire a new coach with a GM and within a year state that you're still looking for "serious" leadership/vision. We're doomed for a long time.
JOHNSON |
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This year wasn't supposed to be a "rebuid", it was supposed to be re-tooling & coaching up of a solid foundation.
Then, after all of the offseason activity and suspect draft class ... this was then considered a rebuild project. Usually, during the regime of a new coach you don't see this much turmoil early on. It seems like a good number of the players have tuned Mangini out. It is chaos. There is no reason for this team to be as non-competitive as they are. We are looking at a historically epic failure. The '99 team we knew was devoid of talent and at least we knew they gave their all ... which made them entertaining to watch. This ... this is just ... sickening, man. ********************************************************************* “We want to win immediately. To say you're building is an incomplete sentence. ... You're building for a future coach and general manager.” - Marv Levy |
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Ahhh, Bellichek; now there's a lovable head coach. Sure he gets results but WOW is he bland! Watching his press conferences is like watching wallpaper paste dry. We need a good communicator, strong motivator, wildly emotional and EXPERIENCED FOOTBALL COACH. The good ones are already employed and the bad ones are looking for positions (just like Mangini did sans the Jets). I have been a fan since the founding of the team and have seen some wonderful teams and some horrible teams over almost 60 years. But, the last two years have been the worst EVER! Mr Lerner please spend the time necessary to get it right. |
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Hilarious how you think u know everything So Mangini had a great plan for the Qb's right? We must just be waiting for that right??? Those 11 former jets are looking great right? Kinda like Marinelli and his former Bucs - worked well in the D didn't it? |
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Had Mangini taken over during a season, the arguement that this isn't his team, would hold water. He didn't--and it won't. 20 + players, including 4 starters from the Jets[who KNOW his system], a more than full draft---this is his team.
We are in much better shape, now, draft wise and cap wise, than we were when ManKok took over. No doubt. HIS product on the field is SORRY. If he pulled BQ for the cap, say so. Say it was "in the best interest of the Browns". Some would agree--all would like the honesty. What worries me most, is Mangini's attitude. He demands that everyone else-"Shape up, or ship out". Fine. Does that include our OC? Does that include HIM? Our QB play? Does Ryan get to pick who plays on D? Ratliff over Bartel? If he wanted to save money, and not play BQ, he should have given Ratliff a shoot, instead of letting DA suffer. ManKok has created questions, and doubt. That is a fact. NFL. ESPN. Any network. You will find questions, satire, and doubt. JL asked "where are we trying to go? What are we treying to do, besides winning"? |
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I think this team would look a lot better if we had an offense. Thats a big if though. I like Rob Ryan, Mangini and Kok may turn out to know what they are doing in a couple years, but Brian Daboll is going to keep looking like a bum until we get an RB in here. Hence, we arrive at Jamal retiring next season and forcing these coaches to find someone who can run da ball and make this team look alot better. Rookie qb's and mediocre qb's can have success in this league, but if you check it out its only the ones who have good rb's to carry the load. It's gon be the same old same old till that happens
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I agree, in this situation we are in much better shape than we have been in years.
I think it's as simple as maybe he didn't like one of the jokes Quinn cracked, so he decided to take away Quinn's bonus money. Maybe it struck a nerve. You never know with this guy, it's entirely possible.
Bartel looked miles and miles better than Ratliff, but when you have a GM who has no say in what happens with the team, then you have a coach who takes inferior players because he likes their attitude. I think some of the players he's taken, specifically from the Jets, are not the best he could have gotten; he just loves having his ego stroked.
I can't argue with this logic. Anderson has been horrendous, and somehow he found a way to blame the team instead of himself. Granted, in the beginning he was throwing the ball straight to the receivers, but the past couple of weeks there's been little excuse for him to blame everyone. Saying that, at least he's blaming himself, too.
Jamal Lewis will always have my respect. I think he's brought some valuable leadership to the team, and if he really retires after this season, I'll be sad to see him go. Regarding the team, the coach, and the GM, I agree with you 100%. We are the laughing stock of the national sports news media. We've even eclipsed the Raiders, and I didn't think that was possible. I am unsure what needs to happen, but SOMETHING needs to happen. I've been a Browns fan my whole life, and the past 10 years have been brutal. Modell never should have been allowed to move the team. We've never recovered, and time and again we get taken to the cleaners, expecting to just grin, bear it, and say, "There's always next year." Frankly I've had enough "next years" to last me a lifetime. I'm by no means a fairweather fan, but if some of the games this and next season get blacked out, I would not be surprised at all. I can only watch about half of a given game these days, as it is. I love the Browns, I have admiration for Paul Brown and all of the championships he and Otto Graham won, but we are not the same team. The current Browns are at best a farm team, not good enough for the NFL. Whether this is Mangini's fault or not depends on who you ask, but he personally selected every player that plays in each game. The GM currently has no authority, as most of us know; he is merely a patsy for Mangini to do as he wills without question. |
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Wow I am getting it from all today.
Let me address all you you briefly;
John, just stop, the day you make an intelligent football post is the day I can rest easy knowing the fans might have a clue.
You are digging deep dawg, you can't relate THE OLD Browns to the NEW Browns.....the old Browns had carry over player who were actually worth their paychecks. Not the New Browns, your talking apples and oranges, but I see the point you are trying to make. I just don't think the two scenarios can be related.
come on Flap, you honestly believe that garbage? Anyone who was thinking that a new coach and GM didn't mean a rebuild was living in some alternate universe. The worst part is that the fans DEMANDED that we start over....and now they are unhappy with the results. No surprise to this Browns fan. I also completely disagree that the players have tuned Mangini out....the sad part is, if the players do give up on Mangini (which they have NOT) it is going to get MUCH MUCH worse than it is now. Sickening, yes, but if they start tuning Mangini out....you ain't seen sickening yet.
I know more than most here...which isn't saying much. It's just the vocal minority outweigh the silent majority as usual. A QB "Plan" is to find out who is or isn't the QB for this team, and if both are not, we move on....that's the plan. You can't blame the fact that both QB's are no good on Mangini. The fact that you think that there should be some kind of "plan" for inheriting two crappy QB's is comical. You cannot blame these QB's not being good on Mangini, he didn't bring either of these bumbs into this organization. Two Years, Two Pro Bowls. |
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Prediction:
Mike Holmgren seems like the most qualified candidate to become an NFL team President. He is currently out of the league, but might be interested in coming back in a front office capacity ala Parcells in Miami. Now who would be the most likely unemployed head coach from the Holmgren tree to take the job in Cleveland? Gruden? Mariucci? Pure conjecture here, just thinking out loud. |
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What about Cowher for Team President? Things get too bad he takes over as coach..?
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So the fact that BOTH Qb's have obviously regressed doesn't have anything to do w/the coaches eh? Get a clue.... |
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every body knows why the brown will never ever be able to compete,that corner of ohio unforunatly is a politcal body trying to keep there corporate fans happy,thats why they pick the people in the draft they pick,they could of had the best player in football,but instead they went with a suppose 2 be over hype player in joe thomas,instead of getting peterson,then they just give dallas a no 1 draf pic to get that running in quick sand brady quinn,with the politcal connection of sam wies and cordell,and that gm,20 teams knew quinn wasn't fast enough 2 play in the nfl,where they could of gotten troy smith,who out play flacco in baltimore,but got sick,and they took is job from him,and they could of had several others pro bowlers in earlier drafs,the people who are now fired did not know anything about drafting,now i know clevland dont like to draf black qb,s bc of there races corperate brothers,but why not get mike vick,or a athletic qb like smith or vick,the fand will still go and support the team,so until cleveland browns dont stop being politcal because racism is a political issue,they need to get real footbal players,and try something new instead of trying to keep there corperate white friends happy,i eventhink they see that the games is just to fast for those slow sorry 2 say white qbs,not even your great tebow will be able to handle a nfl rush,you will need to pick all oline men no 4 the next ten years to protect those slow qbs,and if cleveland just cant pick athletic black qb,then look high and low and try to find a white qb that is mobil,and get a real running back to help the qbs and dont pick joe thomas over a peterson,the vikings are doing well without joe thomas,so get real
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LoL @ get a clue, don't act childish or I'll just let you complain, put you on ignore and not worry about it.
They haven't regressed, the talent around them has. That you CAN blame on Mangini, but just remember Braylon was a FA and we got something for him. Kellen is now the highest paid TE in history and Stallworth killed a man. Two Years, Two Pro Bowls. |
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I agree with this. Mangini did bring a bunch of players here that we got on the cheap. Many of them are better than what we had, but they weren't brought over to be stars, they were brought to help the team transition to a new system. It is tough to evaluate players based upon film, I think that Mangini knows what needs to happen in the off season. Kokinis will be a big help addressing free agents. The browns have money to spend on free agents and they have 11 draft picks. I have said this would take two years to turn around but with three good free agents and a good draft this can be a significantly better team. And where are the players playing who were cut by the browns? Most of them are playing NOWHERE ____ Yoda: NO! Try Not, Do Or Do Not, There is no try!!! |
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See ADDING to the current regime is something I can get on board with. hiring Cowher, or Holmgren IN ADDITION to Mangini and Koknis sounds like a good plan to me. Firing them based on a roster full of Phil Savage picks and signing is absolute nonsense.
Two Years, Two Pro Bowls. |
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I think Mangini is a future superbowl coach, with the browns (hopefullY) or another team. How many times have the browns seen a fired coach go to the superbowl?
____ Yoda: NO! Try Not, Do Or Do Not, There is no try!!! |
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DawgTracker... I do ADMIRE yer optimism... I jest doan UNNERSTAND it... Free Agents: Zackly which overly 'spensive "free" agent what we ever picked up a-since '99 (other than Steinbach... who is within shoutin' distance of OK) gives us the slightest hope Berea got itseff any idear what a football player ackcherly looks like? FA Money down the drain is all I see that we got ourseffs to look forward to. ELEVEN draft picks... Hoo boy! A-since 1999, name ONE draft pick (asides Thomas) what was even a remotely good idear. Gettin' ourseffs ELEVEN brand new untested Fellers what will quickly prove they cain't block nor tackle nor catch nor throw'd the ball... doan seem like a wunnerful future to this ol' sharecropper. UNLESS... if'n you is on the inside scoop that we is gonna let Mr. Bill Cowher pick our FA's an' draftees fer us... ONLY THEN cain I begin to unnerstand yer enthusiasm... JMIgnertO |
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We have no pro bowl TE no pro bowl WR both given away for rookie draft picks.Give us all what we have been saying since 1999 a Franchise QB a established coach and a winning team!! This is a repeating problem year after year and if this coaching staff stays for another year i can only imagine what will be said or what the excuse will be next year.Teams change for the better year after year fix it now or sell nuff said!!
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mr. lerner here is a real football coach who is not working his resume is right here.Michael George Holmgren (born June 15, 1948 in San Francisco, California) is a professional football coach. He served as the head coach of the Green Bay Packers from 1992 to 1998, the Seattle Seahawks from 1999 to 2008. Prior to his career in the National Football League, Holmgren coached football at the high school and collegiate levels. He is noted for his role in molding quarterbacks such as Joe Montana, Steve Young, Brett Favre and Matt Hasselbeck during his tenures in San Francisco, Green Bay and Seattle. Under Holmgren's leadership and play calling the Green Bay Packers were consistent winners; and, he has become known as one of the best coaches in the NFL, leading them to their twelfth league championship in Super Bowl XXXI. Under Holmgren the Seahawks also became a perennial playoff team, including a trip to the franchise's first Super Bowl in 2005.
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dear randy
you should be fuming, you made a terrible mistake hiring mangini. it's so obvious the team has no direction....the only reply from the players we've heard all year in interviews is " we can't make mistakes and win "" well randy you have a teaam that is totally disfunctional because of there tenative play...please wake up and cut your losses, get rid of mangini (the whole league knows he's terrible) and put confidence back into your team |
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Browns2030- I'll bet that he's already reviewed that resume in greater detail than we know.
Hairdog- Cowher didn't buy the groceries, he had some pretty good front office help. That's why the new coach continues to do well. By the way, I don't think that they new guy is all that great a coach. He's got all the right people around him, the sign of a well run organization. I think Randy is learning....slowly. |
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Hair, This post is jusem pure pessemism, caint spalin it no better than that ther. Seriously though, you can't look to the past to predict the future, especially when youhave new people running the thing. You cannot blame the failures of everyone else on Mangini and Kokonis,nor can you look to the past, see failure and automatically assume that Mangini will make the same mistakes (in the draft). We have 11 draft picks. That's how you build a team. Two Years, Two Pro Bowls. |
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ok, i've got some time now. the talent level of 2008 easily surpasses that of this season. OK, fair enough, mangini couldnt do anything about the stallworth case. Everyone seems to say that Edwards would hit the open market at the end of the year anyway, explaining the trade, but would he not have been restricted. i understand trading him but we got very little in return for somebody who'll probably go on to big things. Winslow is having a relatively excellent season considering the situation he's in. they're on their 3rd QB. has he 4TDs this year? everyone in the country knew we needed our 2nd round picks to contribute. i realise they're only rooks but Robiskie has to show a lot more and massaquoi has dropped as many as he caught. We also released JJ. in other words we've given a 26 & 25 year old QBs no chance to develop. AND YES they have both regressed significantly as they're confidence has waned, they're trade value has plummeted. what are you watching?? Veikune - i don't blame him that he's learning, i blame the coach. why was he picked if they didnt know what to do with him. they first tried him at OLB now he's an inside project. I'm sorry but we do NOT have the luxury of using second round picks that we picked in trading our best playmakers or giving another team their franchise QB to use on a project. u talk about Bartons tackles, thats because our D has been on the field twice as much as Denvers has. And no Denver had probably less talent then us at the end of 09. aside from cutler, champ, marshall & royal, they had little else that produced, but they have found inspiration from their leadership. St.Clair is awful, Shaffer was never that bad for us, don't care if he's not starting in Chicago. Sean Jones has been decent in Philly, he probably edges out Elam. Poteat is useless, cousins/poteat, i suppose they're as bad as each other. I cannot believe rucker did not got a shot, our current TE group is awful. Rucker and beau bell suffered by missing the first half of they're rookie seasons through injury. a pass catching TE is exactly what this offense needs, not like he was a big earner, why was he cut? please explain, so he's not a run blocking TE, neither was Winslow, but the run game is probably worse as well this season than it was with winslow starting. I think Beau bell forced 2 fumbles on special team last year. so he had learning difficulties but i'd have been giving him a shot as a guy we drafted at MLB over bowens right now. why is trusnik playing over hall? you say you can't blame Mangini for all this but i believe that his brief is to produce a competent football team. we changed regime because we were coming off a 4-12 season with a horrible schedule and both BQ/DA missing for the last 5 or so games. we are much much worse and if not for rosco parrishes fumble we'd be staring down an 0-16 season. I'm not delusional enough to think things would get better straight away, but with a much lighter schedule on paper i think most of us thought a 6-10 season was manageable. at the minute it looks like we'll be banking on the lions/raiders/rams games to pick another win up but i'm not holding my breath. Not many people wanted mangini here in the first place and how he has performed is unacceptable. Lerner like any smart owner is only tryin to protect his business. if theres threat of a boycott he's gona lose out and needs to do something about it, it's only logical that he as owner points the finger directly at the man responsible for whats happening on the field, and that i'm afraid is mangini. |
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The more I watch the Brown this season, the more I get suspended
 People, lay off Lerner and Mangini  They are trying to build this team the right way. 11 picks, Mangini's career here rides on those. I like that part of what he's done. We have the opportunity to be a strong team for years (if he hits on his picks). Lerner is doing what he can to make sure this program is successful. Hiring the RIGHT President that can co-exist is key. So put your emotions aside and hope for a VERY successful draft. Thats all we have ight now, nothing will change that  ----------------------------- Select Eric Berry PLEEEASE! Formerly, kosarforOC |
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The problem with this is that the roster is full of Mangini SCRUBS not savages picks...It has to be over 50% new players that Mangini has brought in...and they are doing a BANG UP JOB let me tell ya And I am not trying to pick a fight here but you keep saying that this is not Manginis fault when clearly it is...he has been bringing in his "boys" from the Jets who are a bunch of 3rd and 4th stringers ( with the exception of Barton) He has traded away our only talent on offense, and let me tell you it SHOWS...and the guy has questionable drafting skills (see last draft) just a few HUGE examples passing on Oher for Mack ( hes good but he is a CENTER), drafting Robiski and Vekuine look like huge disasters so far, and yes I know its early but come on I don't think Robiski has a catch and if Vekuine can't crack the lineup on THIS defense then he has a BIG problem! Now for the off the field stuff...painting over the legends mural...that was classy Mangini...fining somebody $1700 for a bottle of WATER???? seriously???? Being investigated by the league for the rookie bus thing, and the James Davis injury...not picking a QB till the night before the first game and then yanking him after 2 and a half games only to let Anderson play 5 of the most HORRENDOUS games ever played by a QB and then stating he likes what he sees!!!! In all honesty how can you say the problems of this team don't fall squarely on Mangini's shoulders. He says everybody should be held accountable, well maybe he should be held accountable |
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No, he would not have been restricted. He would have been a UFA and able to sign anywhere he wanted.
The thing is, what are you going to do with a 40 million dollar tight end when his knee finally does give out? I know it is a big if, but the tight end is a complimentary position. I loved him as a player but he didn't block, at least well and he NEVER practiced and not practicing isn't conducive to good offensive chemistry. Nah, I am not buying that the QB's have "regressed" how can you say that with a bunch of guys who are in their first year under this team? You really can't and your just jumping to conclusions. In addition I might ask, regressed from what? Terrible to a little bit more terrible? These QB's are that good.....Sorry, Quinn isn't better than Anderson and Anderson sucks......sorry to break it to you.
I can't say I disagree, but I do. He was ALWAYS going to play ILB.....I don't recall is being stated he was going to be an OLB. I do agree, that some blame falls on the GM for drafting a project, but come on, we are talking about a LATE second round pick forced into a starting role due to injury. I agree that it might have been better FOR THE SHORT TERM to take someone else, but you are splitting hairs if you think some other pick would make us better right now.
Ah, yeah you named a bunch of players that were better than the guys we have. Let me list a few more. *insert Right guard and right tackle here* DJ Williams Elvis Dummerville Brian Dawkins (maybe the best FS I have ever seen??) Correll Buckhalter knowshown Moreno So really we aren't talking apple to apples when it comes to talent, maybe the only position we have an upgrade on Denver is Left Tackle and that would be debatable because Ryan Clady is really good too. Mangini is doing the same exact thing that McDaniels did, just with less talent and no Jay Cutler to trade.
Eh I think they are about the same, both aren't good but Shcaeffer had a much bigger contract.
I doubt it and he still isn't 100% healthy, probably out of the league next year. Sorry, sad but true.
sorry again Poteat>Cousins. At least I don't see Poteat getting torched all over like Cousins did.
Now you are trying to make your argument about Mangini being bad over a couple of what 5th round draft picks? Bowens is better than Bell and I really can't explain Rucker, but it's irrelevant as he would not have started over either Heiden or Royal.
have you seen Trusnik? I think the guy has been playing pretty well. What is your point? Then a bunch of complaining I won't address. Look, there is a reason Lerner fired Savage and Crenel, their complete inability to get talented players and run an organization is only now truly being discovered but your mad at Mangini? Sorry friend, you are mad at Phil Savage. Two Years, Two Pro Bowls. |
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Firing Mangini wouldn't do anything to fix a thing right now.
Lerner should hire a president of football ops from a select few NFL highly respected candidates. Then let him do what he wants to the team from here on out. -------------- Dawg Gone |
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sure- just give him total autonomy!
that is what you guys are complaining about now! when that guy goes 1-7 what are you going to do? you guys never back anyone Forget hope! Show me some HEART! |
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brownschat.clevelandbrowns.com Forums Main Index Pure Football Randy Lerner "...Mangini's job safe for now..."|
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