Please continue the discussion here, and without the number of personal attacks in the first one.

One down, two more to go! Fire Eric Randy, then sell the team!

I saw on the other thread the talk about Marty, Cowher, etc and take this for what it's worth....and it's pure speculation on my part but after the game last Sunday I was watching the post game show with Boomer, Shannon etc..and when Cowher was ask his thoughts on the game, all he talked about was the poor play of Chicago. After he was done Boomer and Shannon looked at him like he was nuts and said "what about Cleveland" and he simply said he had nothing to say about them. Boomer picked it up from there saying Mangini needs to be fired blah blah blah but I just found it really odd that Cowher wouldn't say a word. Make me wonder if he already knew this was coming.

Also makes me wonder if he's thinking about coming back. Like I said pure speculation on my part but either he's really happy about the demise of the Browns or he's not interested in kicking a dawg when it's down or something else...I dunno.

quote:

Originally posted by beergirl1013:
I saw on the other thread the talk about Marty, Cowher, etc and take this for what it's worth....and it's pure speculation on my part but after the game last Sunday I was watching the post game show with Boomer, Shannon etc..and when Cowher was ask his thoughts on the game, all he talked about was the poor play of Chicago. After he was done Boomer and Shannon looked at him like he was nuts and said "what about Cleveland" and he simply said he had nothing to say about them. Boomer picked it up from there saying Mangini needs to be fired blah blah blah but I just found it really odd that Cowher wouldn't say a word. Make me wonder if he already knew this was coming.

Also makes me wonder if he's thinking about coming back. Like I said pure speculation on my part but either he's really happy about the demise of the Browns or he's not interested in kicking a dawg when it's down or something else...I dunno.

I saw the same thing and will agree with you. It was like they knew something was coming down and perhaps IF Cowher is invloved he was under a "gag order".

Mankokless hahahah awesome. As for the Cower post hmmmm.

Now that we are ManKokless.....Comon Randy pull the trigger and get a real NFL FO started, by hiring someone with the word Superbowl winner on his resume. Stop making us look like the NFL fools here.

I think we need to wait until more of the story comes out before we just jump to rash conclusions.

Like Lerner made this firing to appease some protesting fans.

Cowher did the same thing last year when all the talks of firing RAC and hiring a new coach were going on. I wouldn't read too much into it. I wouldn't mind seeing it happen though.

This is good move. It is obvious that GK was not involved in the organization. Mangini gave his word that we would rebuild & be competitive, and clearly that is not happening. Time to hopefully right this sinking ship.

I despise the continuity arguement that float around these forums. If we kept GK for 3 more years, we do not suddenly become better. We have 11 draft picks next year, and that is a fantastic opportunity to get our team on the right track. We could not afford to squander them.
The NFL is a win now league. It does not take 3 years to be competitive. It may take 3 years to become a championship team, but not 3 years to average more than 10 points a game. Mangini turned over nearly 50%+ of the roster? These are his guys.

Lerner is no idiot. He has to see what Parcells did in Miami. I'm not specifically saying bring in Parcels persay, but follow that model. It can be turned around in a single year. Look at how many teams make that turn around every single year, its entirely possible. Lerner is NOT Al Davis. If he's smart, he gets an accredited football president to run this organization, a GM, and they decide if Mangini is capable of being a team player, because I do think Mangini as a coach is pretty good. As an unaccountable football Czar, not so much.

quote:

Like Lerner made this firing to appease some protesting fans.

VS's says that works.

Now that Kokinis has been found they can take his picture off the milk cartons.

If (like most of you have suggested and Kokinos was just a figure head) this is simply to appease the bone heads..

I was a little shocked to see this last night but if the owner is going to meet with fans= something was bound to happen!

Mike and Mike In The Morning reported today that for the past several weeks the entire front office as well as coaching staff have been investigated for "PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL" misconduct!!! Now we have a few firings and alot of turmoil.

Keep in mind that if you are fired for the above reasons, you are no longer owed the $$$ on your contract since you have violated it....

Now - how the front office was affecting the play on Sundays? Not sure, but something is definitely rotten in Cleveland and it all started with the hiring of Mangini....

And despite all the crap being heaved at Randy for the mistakes he has made, at least he is able to face up to them and bite the bullet and correct his mistakes instead of letting them continue on as some people have suggested he keep doing by allowing the present regime "time"....It is obvious that Mangini is in over his head and has not a clue as to how to assemble a team. And his evaluations of talent and what he brought in further point to a lack of any definitive direction or long-term plan!

Foods for thought Brown's Nation!!!

Go Brownies!!!

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

I was a little shocked to see this last night but if the owner is going to meet with fans= something was bound to happen!

LMAO...and you where so positive nothing would change. How's your solution going now? You know the one you have in place. LOL

I can't believe this is happening.

Say it ain't so Randy.

Kokinis gone because of communication skills?

Getting rid of weapons like KW2 n BE? Hopefully not Kosar's pass, pass influence...whenever we would run in Preseason...he's say we should have passed cause 8 was in the box.

Be upset Randy but get a President to tie this all together as well as communicate to the fans. But don't start lopping off heads this soon. Especially the talent evaluator. I really don't think our rookies or 2nd Tier FAs is what this mess is all about.

So much of it was a Brain Fart move by Mangini to have a QB competition...and then carry it on until the week of our first game? He should have evaluated...named his starter from the get go and move on to building the offense around said QB. Instead we got the most disfunctional Offense right now. Outside of that our team looks fairly solid.

Get upset...make things happen - but don't start firing people. Again possibly Randy has to hire a strong individual...Ernie Accorsi or somebody of that nature to be our Team President who will make the HIRES. Or possibly Bernie, if he's over his personal problems and ready to use that Intelligence he has to running the Browns???

But if we blow this baby up AGAIN...Randy can't make the Hire.

"I think I should evaluate me," he said, only half-jokingly."

And I think Randy now understands this and will do so.

But I just don't want him to do anything as a Knee jerk reaction to fans.

I just have to at this point - Say, Pray that
In Randy I trust. I know he has us fans and the well being of the team at heart.

BeerGirl...first off got to pause and listen to anything with those two words in it...BEER n GIRL...lol

But thanks for the insight and who knows if that is the President to be. I think Randy is looking for a President/GM and strong communicator as well as Highly respected Football Mind. Cause as mentioned I don't think Randy is pleased with "HIS" Decision but of course cannot FIRE himself. And selling the team would be stupid. Not when he has the FANS best interest.

JMHO

I apologize if I missed this skimming through the initial Kokinis thread but The News Herald is reporting that Ernie Accorsi is back as our GM; can't find any other news stories stating the same thing:


George Kokinis was fired Monday as general manager and escorted from Browns headquarters, according to league sources. The Browns are not confirming the reports.

Hours later, sources said Ernie Accorsi was hired as the team's GM. The move is a blast from the past for Browns' fans. Accorsi was the Browns' GM from 1985 to 1992.

He also served as GM of the Colts from 1982 to 83, and also worked in the Giants' front office from 1994 to 2004, including a stint as New York's GM from 1998 and on.

In 2004, he spearheaded a trade to get No. 1 pick Eli Manning from the Chargers.

Kokinis has been on the hot seat for more than three weeks, the source said. The ax falls one day after Browns owner Randy Lerner said he plans on hiring a strong football personality to run the Browns.

The firing comes at the start of the bye week.

Kokinis was hired Jan. 23 at the urging of Browns coach Eric Mangini. Lerner has said Mangini's job is safe for now.

More to come as details become available. Tuesday's print editions will have a full report.


http://news-herald.com/article...sports/nh1647108.txt

still don't see anything on making Daboll step aside. Guess they feel he's doing a good job and the offense failing isn't completely on him...seems like I've been on checking updates since Sunday's game NON STOP.

Ernie is not the answer at all here.

Pimp him if you must EO but Ernie would be a huge mistake IMO. The game had passed him by and he alrady gave RL advice that hasn't helped at all.

Excited about the possibility of Accorsi as our GM with 11 picks in the upcoming draft!

Accorsi will come in and if he can work with EM (a big if, i guess) than we should continue in the right direction and have personnel to match.

If him and EM cant co-exist- Ernie can work with BErnie to go the Coach they want!

This is Randy Lerner's team and I trust he wants what is best for it

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:
Ernie is not the answer at all here.

Pimp him if you must EO but Ernie would be a huge mistake IMO. The game had passed him by and he alrady gave RL advice that hasn't helped at all.

Do you even think before you post? How has the game passed him by? This is the guy that drafted Umenyiora, Chris Snee, Justin Tuck, William Joseph, Matthias Kiwanuka, and Brandon Jacobs...He hired Tom Coughlin and was the Giants GM as recently as 2006.

But yeah...game passed him by o.O

quote:

I'm reading about the kat right now to see what his resume has.

you can spend all day reading Accorsi's resume- it is loaded with successful work!

The latest being the Giants that won the SB

If, that is IF, Accorsi is hired as the GM, I wonder if he will only be a temporary GM for the duration of the season. I would think that if Accorsi had wanted the job permanently he would have gotten it after Savage was fired. He and Lerner are supposed to be friends, so I could see him stepping in for the rest of the year as a favor to Lerner, while a thorough search is made for the permanent GM.

quote:

Pimp him if you must EO but Ernie would be a huge mistake IMO. The game had passed him by and he alrady gave RL advice that hasn't helped at all.

Your premise that the game has passed him by is Absurd and based on not one fact.

Ernie gave Randy friendly advice he was not hired by Randy as did the Falcon organization to right their ship in their hire. We can only speculate...like I know I did in thinking Ernie advised Randy in hiring Kokinis. Who btw was fired only cause he stood in the way of the move not because of his talent evaluations. Ideally he could have been demoted to Head of Personnel or something but that would have been an insult. But back to the speculations. We don't know what transpired and it could have been just very general advice.

I don't think Ernie is looking to be here long either. I believe he would like to resume his retirement...Groom somebody to take his position (possibly the aforementioned Bernie - lets see if he's set up as Ernie's Asst.?)

I think this basically is Randy doing his due diligence and sort of firing himself (not selling the team as a solution thats stupid) and getting one of the most respected Football people out there. Not to Micro Manage everything...but to set the Ship get it Sailing again.

JMHO

Ok We are still in the dark.
But here is my rundown of what i as a fan, have been INSANE football moves and have made the team worse.
1) Lerner after promising a thorough search conducted by the hiring of a top GM, knee jerk hires Mangini and we have our 4rth not wet behind the ears GM( disaster)
2) we dump a pro Bowl TE and sign a TE chump, we also dump the TE the former staff was trying to groom and the backup TE. We are left with the oft injured Heidon and chumps.
3) we conduct a poor draft, trade out of the #5 pick for jets stiffs and have a decent center, the Jets get the cheapest franchise QB in history of one sided trades.( of cource our not wet behind the ears GM made the trade, or did he)
4) we clean house of all kinds of vets and bring in faces, not improvement but worse.
5) we hire yet another rookie OC in Daboll.
6) we dump edwards in season for more chump chnage( IF Kokonis did not even KNOW of this as it has been said he said...then Mangini needs the boot)
7) Giving Quinn the boot after 2.5 games against the NFL elite.
8) sticking with the Horrid DA.( Verse and his name calling at anyone who wants to see what we have in Quinn is wearing egg on his face as DA has blown such bad chunks he has a RETIREMENT reel) This is all Mangini.

Ok All this is GOOD. Reality must be served when you make a gaggle of moves and each one incrementally makes the team LESS competitive.
Hiring another rookie Gm and seeing yet another spotty draft is REALITY being served. Lerner knee jerk hiring of Mangini( some around here were funny enough to salute the move because Mangini could get his staff faster) a coach No One else wanted made the moves and Ran Kokonis...so what does firing Kokonis mean?
At this time, NOTHING.

Unless Lerner bites the bullet and really hires a top GM, we will continue in the Groundhog Day of football Hell. Mangini, I believe directed all these moves, and the putrid product is all on HIM. Jamal Lewis talking about a bunch of guys and beside himself with the total disarray of the team is the ONLY voice I trust. I think what he said but did not say is that we let go some real talent and signed a "bunch of guys". The total disfunction is all on this "new direction" and Lewis sees absolutely no direction. Mangini/ Daboll have NO CLUE, fire them both.

Rex Ryan as interim head Coach and start interviewing for real. As those millions Randy, well, YOU blew them by your Knee jerk hires. Don't toss the present time and money after yesterdays ill spent money down the drain.

All this is GOOD. Reality is being served. Verse, your man DA is as horrid a QB I have ever seen. The Team of "mankok" has had a visit from a Moil ( I am not jewish so I probably blew the spelling, but the second part of Mankok has been severed). Now we need to do what we have not done since expension. Hire a REAL top football GM and really build this team with intelligent drafting. maybe tennesee is dumb enough to fire Fisher. he would be at the top of the list as next head coach...But we need a new GM.
And if Bernie had anythig to do with this firing, then i submit my apologies too Bernie for calling him Window dressing as this is the first step on the real road any expansion team must make. We have NEVER had a competent GM, and that is why we stay in 1999. maybe, just maybe, Randy lerner now sees the horrid mistake he made in January can be undone. Should we hire accorsi and a top Coach then fans will finally BELIEVE and have the patience that we really are building a football team and not rebuilding every 3 years.

Be happy, this MAY be the first shovel full of building for the future...Or it may jus be window dressing and no other changes will be made. Stay tuned.

quote:

Originally posted by beergirl1013:
I saw on the other thread the talk about Marty, Cowher, etc and take this for what it's worth....and it's pure speculation on my part but after the game last Sunday I was watching the post game show with Boomer, Shannon etc..and when Cowher was ask his thoughts on the game, all he talked about was the poor play of Chicago. After he was done Boomer and Shannon looked at him like he was nuts and said "what about Cleveland" and he simply said he had nothing to say about them. Boomer picked it up from there saying Mangini needs to be fired blah blah blah but I just found it really odd that Cowher wouldn't say a word. Make me wonder if he already knew this was coming.

Also makes me wonder if he's thinking about coming back. Like I said pure speculation on my part but either he's really happy about the demise of the Browns or he's not interested in kicking a dawg when it's down or something else...I dunno.

As much as we'd all want the CHIN to coach the team,he has to have some major reservations to even consider being part of this train wreck.

I see a new flavor of Koolaid is availble.

*Gulp*

Don't kid yourself, Cowher is not coming to Cleveland. That would be a good thing. As most of you know by now....not many good things happen to this team.

quote:

I don't think Ernie is looking to be here long either. I believe he would like to resume his retirement...Groom somebody to take his position (possibly the aforementioned Bernie - lets see if he's set up as Ernie's Asst.?)

This is very intriguing- IMO Bernie was brought in 2 weeks ago with this move in mind! This has been going on for weeks I believe..

quote:

still don't see anything on making Daboll step aside.

The usual shake up...but I see Randy ain't messing around with simple message. He wants a change in direction...maybe not coaching but in direction. Getting rid of the OC now would not help anything just cause more CHAOS and bring in a new play book. It ain't the plays...its the execution.

I would be surprised if Daboll is with this team come January...possibly one of the power relinquishing Mangini will have to do to stay here. HGIC...has just taken a big turn.

HGIC...Head Guy In Charge.

It is no longer Mangini - and is now Ernie Accorsi (presumed). If Mangini wishes to remain a HC and make this work he will get his opportunity. I still think Mangini has some special football intelligence and merits. But HGIC will no longer be in his moniker.

Daboll...probably gone at season's end. Not a good move now and only if he resigns.

JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:
I see a new flavor of Koolaid is availble.

*Gulp*

So either you spout off misinformation and don't respond to retorts or you talk about drinking koolaid. Great addition to the board.

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

I don't think Ernie is looking to be here long either. I believe he would like to resume his retirement...Groom somebody to take his position (possibly the aforementioned Bernie - lets see if he's set up as Ernie's Asst.?)

This is very intriguing- IMO Bernie was brought in 2 weeks ago with this move in mind! This has been going on for weeks I believe..

Very possible!

quote:

Originally posted by scarboroughdawg:
As much as we'd all want the CHIN to coach the team,he has to have some major reservations to even consider being part of this train wreck.

I don't know which "we" you're talking about, but there is no way in hell I want Cowher to coach or be GM for the Browns. He's got to be one of the most overrated coaches, if not the most over rated coach, in the history of the game.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:
I see a new flavor of Koolaid is availble.

That's good news to me. Call me a big kid, but I love KoolAid.

quote:

As much as we'd all want the CHIN to coach the team,he has to have some major reservations to even consider being part of this train wreck.

Never underestimate the power of the human ego. Fame is gained by winning, Legends are made by taking horrible situations and making them competent.

quote:

Originally posted by NaTaS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:
I see a new flavor of Koolaid is availble.

*Gulp*

So either you spout off misinformation and don't respond to retorts or you talk about drinking koolaid. Great addition to the board.

Wasting your breath NATAS- if you do not agree with his fantastic assessments you get the Kool Aid moniker..

he is a big plus on this board..

according to Accorsi- he is not coming back

Dawg Gone- he did not recommend Kokinos either!

Reports of Cleveland Browns hiring Ernie Accorsi are false
By Tony Grossi
November 03, 2009, 9:25AM
CLEVELAND -- Former Browns General Manager Ernie Accorsi is not part of the reorganization of the club's football operations, he said this morning.

Accorsi, who last served as general manager of the New York Giants, said he is "happily retired" and has not been in contact with Browns owner Randy Lerner regarding a consultant position.

Accorsi was retained by Lerner in January as a consultant during the Browns' search for a general manager. His top recommendation to Lerner was Dave Gettleman, Giants director of pro personnel. Lerner chose George Kokinis, the preferred choice of coach Eric Mangini.

Kokinis was fired on Tuesday and now Lerner is looking to rebuild his organization again.

"I am not taking any GM job anywhere. Period," Accorsi said. "I am not taking any full-time job. I serve the league office as a consultant. I have consulted in various areas with four NFL clubs the past two years."

Reports that Accorsi would be hired to train former quarterback Bernie Kosar for a GM position are off base, too.

Accorsi, who considers himself a friend of the Lerner family, said he would give advice if called upon, but he has not had recent conversations with Lerner and has no agreement in place.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:
I see a new flavor of Koolaid is availble.

*Gulp*

Its called making sense of it all. Most have thought change was needed of some proportion...we just didn't know what. As the change emerge and actually the "LOGICAL" course of action is taken and then recognized by some board members and only being a sign of Good in our future. For Good is what RANDY is searching for...don't you RANDY must go people understand his love for this team?

Don't you understand that Randy just FIRED himself for the love of the team? It takes a big man to do that.

So there is a choice we all have as fans to make...Drink the Kool Aid.

Or run around yelling...the sky is falling. the sky is falling! like that makes any sense at all!

There was a short list and probably 2 people came to mind Ron Wolf or Ernie Accorsi...the latter still freshly involved with the game and didn't leave it entirely since his retirement.

Anyone else would have been an EXPERIMENT...Cowher? Bernie? the only other person actually has that role already. Bill Parcells in Miami.

I thought maybe Jimmy Johnson but he's bee out of the loop for a very long time.

The list was a short one if you ask me. Wolf or Accorsi.

JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by Cheffie:
Mike and Mike In The Morning reported today that for the past several weeks the entire front office as well as coaching staff have been investigated for "PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL" misconduct!!! Now we have a few firings and alot of turmoil.

Keep in mind that if you are fired for the above reasons, you are no longer owed the $$$ on your contract since you have violated it....

Now - how the front office was affecting the play on Sundays? Not sure, but something is definitely rotten in Cleveland and it all started with the hiring of Mangini....

And despite all the crap being heaved at Randy for the mistakes he has made, at least he is able to face up to them and bite the bullet and correct his mistakes instead of letting them continue on as some people have suggested he keep doing by allowing the present regime "time"....It is obvious that Mangini is in over his head and has not a clue as to how to assemble a team. And his evaluations of talent and what he brought in further point to a lack of any definitive direction or long-term plan!

Foods for thought Brown's Nation!!!

Go Brownies!!!

Yes, i heard this as well, but i think with the 'James Davis' injury situation, thats when the team was placed on the investigation.

Mangini's assistant/Pro Director Erin O'Brien was fired last week (kinda happened under the radar) and actually most of us didnt know she actually had this position.

I also heard that Lerner finally had a discussion with Kokinas last week, that it was like the first time before week1 and that Kokinas said it was Mangini that worked out the trade of Braylon Edwards on his own, without going thru him, then Lerner asked George, "well what the hell are you doing here?" .

anyway i see it, i think Mangini's days are numbered as well. I dont think we'll see a complete 180 of the team's moral and effort just by the release of a GM, who seemed to have no or very minimal control of his duties, as well as interaction with the players.

Lerner did say Eric's job is safe for now... which pretty much means he'll be closely watched.

i will not be suprised if the 'other set of eyes' that was just reported to be on location over the last few days is Marty Shottenheimer.
He would be one man that Bernie may have mentioned to Lerner on whom "you need to get this man back into the Browns organization, at some level".

no sure then if Marty would accept the GM role, but if he did, he would offer Lerner is list of Candidates of Head Coaches he would like to see here.

and those would be (Bill Cowher, Ravens OC Cam Cameron, Cardinals asst HC Russ Grimm, and a few others).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Referee8,

quote:

Not sure but I'd be damn good at it.

I asked Dante Stallworth on Twitter earlier today if he had connections and could get me in as GM. Funny thing is that was BEFORE Kokonis was ever rumored to be fired.

[/quote] lol, is your name Ernie ?[/quote]

haha I wish. Having that kind of control would be great!

I've only seen one person negative about the Accorsi thing. Adn it's been reported Kokonis has been being investigated for a MONTH, so this may not be him just being a scapegoat because the fans needed to see change.