quote:

So either you spout off misinformation

quote:

CLEVELAND -- Former Browns General Manager Ernie Accorsi is not part of the reorganization of the club's football operations, he said this morning.

Accorsi, who last served as general manager of the New York Giants, said he is "happily retired" and has not been in contact with Browns owner Randy Lerner regarding a consultant position.

Accorsi was retained by Lerner in January as a consultant during the Browns' search for a general manager. His top recommendation to Lerner was Dave Gettleman, Giants director of pro personnel. Lerner chose George Kokinis, the preferred choice of coach Eric Mangini.

Kokinis was fired on Tuesday and now Lerner is looking to rebuild his organization again.

"I am not taking any GM job anywhere. Period," Accorsi said. "I am not taking any full-time job.

quote:

Originally posted by akronjoe:
Ok We are still in the dark.
But here is my rundown of what i as a fan, have been INSANE football moves and have made the team worse.
1) Lerner after promising a thorough search conducted by the hiring of a top GM, knee jerk hires Mangini and we have our 4rth not wet behind the ears GM( disaster)
2) we dump a pro Bowl TE and sign a TE chump, we also dump the TE the former staff was trying to groom and the backup TE. We are left with the oft injured Heidon and chumps.
3) we conduct a poor draft, trade out of the #5 pick for jets stiffs and have a decent center, the Jets get the cheapest franchise QB in history of one sided trades.( of cource our not wet behind the ears GM made the trade, or did he)
4) we clean house of all kinds of vets and bring in faces, not improvement but worse.
5) we hire yet another rookie OC in Daboll.
6) we dump edwards in season for more chump chnage( IF Kokonis did not even KNOW of this as it has been said he said...then Mangini needs the boot)
7) Giving Quinn the boot after 2.5 games against the NFL elite.
8) sticking with the Horrid DA.( Verse and his name calling at anyone who wants to see what we have in Quinn is wearing egg on his face as DA has blown such bad chunks he has a RETIREMENT reel) This is all Mangini.

Ok All this is GOOD. Reality must be served when you make a gaggle of moves and each one incrementally makes the team LESS competitive.
Hiring another rookie Gm and seeing yet another spotty draft is REALITY being served. Lerner knee jerk hiring of Mangini( some around here were funny enough to salute the move because Mangini could get his staff faster) a coach No One else wanted made the moves and Ran Kokonis...so what does firing Kokonis mean?
At this time, NOTHING.

Unless Lerner bites the bullet and really hires a top GM, we will continue in the Groundhog Day of football Hell. Mangini, I believe directed all these moves, and the putrid product is all on HIM. Jamal Lewis talking about a bunch of guys and beside himself with the total disarray of the team is the ONLY voice I trust. I think what he said but did not say is that we let go some real talent and signed a "bunch of guys". The total disfunction is all on this "new direction" and Lewis sees absolutely no direction. Mangini/ Daboll have NO CLUE, fire them both.

Rex Ryan as interim head Coach and start interviewing for real. As those millions Randy, well, YOU blew them by your Knee jerk hires. Don't toss the present time and money after yesterdays ill spent money down the drain.

All this is GOOD. Reality is being served. Verse, your man DA is as horrid a QB I have ever seen. The Team of "mankok" has had a visit from a Moil ( I am not jewish so I probably blew the spelling, but the second part of Mankok has been severed). Now we need to do what we have not done since expension. Hire a REAL top football GM and really build this team with intelligent drafting. maybe tennesee is dumb enough to fire Fisher. he would be at the top of the list as next head coach...But we need a new GM.
And if Bernie had anythig to do with this firing, then i submit my apologies too Bernie for calling him Window dressing as this is the first step on the real road any expansion team must make. We have NEVER had a competent GM, and that is why we stay in 1999. maybe, just maybe, Randy lerner now sees the horrid mistake he made in January can be undone. Should we hire accorsi and a top Coach then fans will finally BELIEVE and have the patience that we really are building a football team and not rebuilding every 3 years.

Be happy, this MAY be the first shovel full of building for the future...Or it may jus be window dressing and no other changes will be made. Stay tuned.

quote:

Former Browns General Manager Ernie Accorsi is not part of the reorganization of the club's football operations, he said this morning.

quote:

What misminformation? That Ernie has been retired for 4 years and the game has passed him by? Or the advice he gave RL that resulted in the hire of ManGini?

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

So either you spout off misinformation

What misminformation? That Ernie has been retired for 4 years and the game has passed him by? Or the advice he gave RL that resulted in the hire of ManGini?

quote:

Originally posted by NaTaS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

So either you spout off misinformation

What misminformation? That Ernie has been retired for 4 years and the game has passed him by? Or the advice he gave RL that resulted in the hire of ManGini?

How does the game pass someone by in 3 years?

Show me a link where Accorsi told Lerner to hire Mangini or its a lie.

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by NaTaS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

So either you spout off misinformation

What misminformation? That Ernie has been retired for 4 years and the game has passed him by? Or the advice he gave RL that resulted in the hire of ManGini?

How does the game pass someone by in 3 years?

Show me a link where Accorsi told Lerner to hire Mangini or its a lie.

It's a lie! Accorsi recommeded Dave Getteman from the Giants!!

quote:

Originally posted by scarboroughdawg:

quote:

Originally posted by beergirl1013:
I saw on the other thread the talk about Marty, Cowher, etc and take this for what it's worth....and it's pure speculation on my part but after the game last Sunday I was watching the post game show with Boomer, Shannon etc..and when Cowher was ask his thoughts on the game, all he talked about was the poor play of Chicago. After he was done Boomer and Shannon looked at him like he was nuts and said "what about Cleveland" and he simply said he had nothing to say about them. Boomer picked it up from there saying Mangini needs to be fired blah blah blah but I just found it really odd that Cowher wouldn't say a word. Make me wonder if he already knew this was coming.

Also makes me wonder if he's thinking about coming back. Like I said pure speculation on my part but either he's really happy about the demise of the Browns or he's not interested in kicking a dawg when it's down or something else...I dunno.

As much as we'd all want the CHIN to coach the team,he has to have some major reservations to even consider being part of this train wreck.

Go Browns!

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:
Comon guys it's not going to be EA anyways.

It's well known Ernie gave RL advice when he blew up the Browns the last time and you all know that avice was either ignored or RL took some of his advice.

Don't come in here and now say EA didn't have anything to do with the hiring of Mangini Nat
*Gulp*

quote:

Originally posted by akronjoe:
Ok We are still in the dark.
But here is my rundown of what i as a fan, have been INSANE football moves and have made the team worse.
1) Lerner after promising a thorough search conducted by the hiring of a top GM, knee jerk hires Mangini and we have our 4rth not wet behind the ears GM( disaster)
2) we dump a pro Bowl TE and sign a TE chump, we also dump the TE the former staff was trying to groom and the backup TE. We are left with the oft injured Heidon and chumps.
3) we conduct a poor draft, trade out of the #5 pick for jets stiffs and have a decent center, the Jets get the cheapest franchise QB in history of one sided trades.( of cource our not wet behind the ears GM made the trade, or did he)
4) we clean house of all kinds of vets and bring in faces, not improvement but worse.
5) we hire yet another rookie OC in Daboll.
6) we dump edwards in season for more chump chnage( IF Kokonis did not even KNOW of this as it has been said he said...then Mangini needs the boot)
7) Giving Quinn the boot after 2.5 games against the NFL elite.
8) sticking with the Horrid DA.( Verse and his name calling at anyone who wants to see what we have in Quinn is wearing egg on his face as DA has blown such bad chunks he has a RETIREMENT reel) This is all Mangini.

Ok All this is GOOD. Reality must be served when you make a gaggle of moves and each one incrementally makes the team LESS competitive.
Hiring another rookie Gm and seeing yet another spotty draft is REALITY being served. Lerner knee jerk hiring of Mangini( some around here were funny enough to salute the move because Mangini could get his staff faster) a coach No One else wanted made the moves and Ran Kokonis...so what does firing Kokonis mean?
At this time, NOTHING.

Unless Lerner bites the bullet and really hires a top GM, we will continue in the Groundhog Day of football Hell. Mangini, I believe directed all these moves, and the putrid product is all on HIM. Jamal Lewis talking about a bunch of guys and beside himself with the total disarray of the team is the ONLY voice I trust. I think what he said but did not say is that we let go some real talent and signed a "bunch of guys". The total disfunction is all on this "new direction" and Lewis sees absolutely no direction. Mangini/ Daboll have NO CLUE, fire them both.

Rex Ryan as interim head Coach and start interviewing for real. As those millions Randy, well, YOU blew them by your Knee jerk hires. Don't toss the present time and money after yesterdays ill spent money down the drain.

All this is GOOD. Reality is being served. Verse, your man DA is as horrid a QB I have ever seen. The Team of "mankok" has had a visit from a Moil ( I am not jewish so I probably blew the spelling, but the second part of Mankok has been severed). Now we need to do what we have not done since expension. Hire a REAL top football GM and really build this team with intelligent drafting. maybe tennesee is dumb enough to fire Fisher. he would be at the top of the list as next head coach...But we need a new GM.
And if Bernie had anythig to do with this firing, then i submit my apologies too Bernie for calling him Window dressing as this is the first step on the real road any expansion team must make. We have NEVER had a competent GM, and that is why we stay in 1999. maybe, just maybe, Randy lerner now sees the horrid mistake he made in January can be undone. Should we hire accorsi and a top Coach then fans will finally BELIEVE and have the patience that we really are building a football team and not rebuilding every 3 years.

Be happy, this MAY be the first shovel full of building for the future...Or it may jus be window dressing and no other changes will be made. Stay tuned.

quote:

It's a lie! Accorsi recommeded Dave Getteman from the Giants!!

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by NaTaS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

So either you spout off misinformation

What misminformation? That Ernie has been retired for 4 years and the game has passed him by? Or the advice he gave RL that resulted in the hire of ManGini?

How does the game pass someone by in 3 years?

Show me a link where Accorsi told Lerner to hire Mangini or its a lie.

It's a lie! Accorsi recommeded Dave Getteman from the Giants!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by NaTaS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

So either you spout off misinformation

What misminformation? That Ernie has been retired for 4 years and the game has passed him by? Or the advice he gave RL that resulted in the hire of ManGini?

How does the game pass someone by in 3 years?

Show me a link where Accorsi told Lerner to hire Mangini or its a lie.

It's a lie! Accorsi recommeded Dave Getteman from the Giants!!

Talk about lie's lol...link please

quote:

Lerner could again turn to the former Giants general manager Ernie Accorsi for advice. Accorsi, who was once the general manager for the Browns, advised Lerner in January, before he hired Mangini and Kokinis. Accorsi was very close to Lerner’s late father, Al, and he has remained close to the rest of the Lerner family. One N.F.L. executive familiar with the Browns’ hiring process in January said that Accorsi was believed to have recommended the Giants’ director of pro personnel David Gettleman for the general manager’s job, and it is possible that Gettleman could now get another look.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by NaTaS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

So either you spout off misinformation

What misminformation? That Ernie has been retired for 4 years and the game has passed him by? Or the advice he gave RL that resulted in the hire of ManGini?

How does the game pass someone by in 3 years?

Show me a link where Accorsi told Lerner to hire Mangini or its a lie.

It's a lie! Accorsi recommeded Dave Getteman from the Giants!!

Talk about lie's lol...link please

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by NaTaS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

So either you spout off misinformation

What misminformation? That Ernie has been retired for 4 years and the game has passed him by? Or the advice he gave RL that resulted in the hire of ManGini?

How does the game pass someone by in 3 years?

Show me a link where Accorsi told Lerner to hire Mangini or its a lie.

It's a lie! Accorsi recommeded Dave Getteman from the Giants!!

Talk about lie's lol...link please

http://www.cleveland.com/brown...eland_browns_hi.html

there you go!

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:
You guys crack me up....where does this show that EA had nothing to do with Mangini being recommended.

I have to laugh because it's very well known that EA gave RL much advice over the past few years. And now you all come in here and say he didn't.

OK ...I got it a long time ago. You all drink the Koolaid faster then this Franchise can mix it up. "EA will be our next GM and we are all on board with it even before it happened."

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:
It is easier if YOU just admit you have bad info..

You said he recommended Kokinos and this article clearly says he recommended someone else.

Your Kool aid argumentt is not really substantial, now is it?

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:
It is easier if YOU just admit you have bad info..

You said he recommended Kokinos and this article clearly says he recommended someone else.

Your Kool aid argumentt is not really substantial, now is it?

I said....."What misminformation? That Ernie has been retired for 4 years and the game has passed him by? Or the advice he gave RL that resulted in the hire of ManGini?"

I know Kok was hand picked by Mangini as everyone else on this planet does.

quote:

Originally posted by NaTaS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:
You guys crack me up....where does this show that EA had nothing to do with Mangini being recommended.

I have to laugh because it's very well known that EA gave RL much advice over the past few years. And now you all come in here and say he didn't.

OK ...I got it a long time ago. You all drink the Koolaid faster then this Franchise can mix it up. "EA will be our next GM and we are all on board with it even before it happened."

Thats a logical fallacy, you cannot prove a negative.

We provided a link to show that it was believed that Accorsi recommend David Gettleman but you have no such evidence that Eccorsi said ANYTHING about Mangini. Its obviously not 'well known' or you'd have more support.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

Originally posted by NaTaS:

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:
You guys crack me up....where does this show that EA had nothing to do with Mangini being recommended.

I have to laugh because it's very well known that EA gave RL much advice over the past few years. And now you all come in here and say he didn't.

OK ...I got it a long time ago. You all drink the Koolaid faster then this Franchise can mix it up. "EA will be our next GM and we are all on board with it even before it happened."

Thats a logical fallacy, you cannot prove a negative.

We provided a link to show that it was believed that Accorsi recommend David Gettleman but you have no such evidence that Eccorsi said ANYTHING about Mangini. Its obviously not 'well known' or you'd have more support.

So where is the support that EA didn't give RL advice on Mangini. Can't have it both ways Nat. Of course it's assumtion. But to assume that EA didn't give RL advice on Mangini is a bigger stretch then him not giving any advice on Mangini. What advice do you think he gave RL. Hire a GM and let him hire the HC....LMAO...RL did the excact opposite of that.

quote:

Originally posted by NaTaS:
You cannot prove EA gave RL advise on Mangini because it DIDNT HAPPEN.

quote:

While Kokinis has his skeptics, former Browns GM Accorsi is a big booster
SOURCE: Cleveland Plain Dealer
By Jamie Turner
January 07, 2009, 7:01PM

CLEVELAND --- If the Browns indeed pair up new coach Eric Mangini with GM candidate George Kokinis, they will be seeking to duplicate the success enjoyed by the Atlanta Falcons this year.
Atlanta turned around its fortunes in one year with a young, rookie general manager at the helm. Thomas Dimitroff, 43, was an out-of-left field candidate to reshape the Falcons and now he is taking bows for transforming them from 4-12 to 11-5 in one year.

Kokinis, 41, the Baltimore Ravens pro personnel director, is the hand-picked choice of Mangini to be the next Browns general manager.

The Browns have interviewed Patriots vice president of personnel Scott Pioli and have received permission to interview Eagles General Manager Tom Heckert. But many consider a Mangini-Kokinis pairing to be a fait accompli because of the strong relationship they've had over the years.

They were among the hungry and driven entry-level staffers who worked essentially as gofers for Bill Belichick in his five seasons as Browns coach in the early 1990s.


Pioli was part of the group. So was Mike Tannenbaum, who eventually became Jets GM. So was Phil Savage, the recently fired Browns GM.

When Belichick was fired by Art Modell after the 1995 season, most of his staff moved to Baltimore. Kokinis is the only one from that pack still with the Ravens.

Mangini tried to hire him with the Jets on at least two occasions. But because Tannenbaum held the top football authority with the Jets, the Ravens had the right to block a lateral move for Kokinis.

Kokinis could only join the Browns as GM or similar position, contractually assured the final say on all football decisions.

Is he ready for that?


One veteran NFL executive said, "Hiring a GM is like drafting a quarterback. You bring in a rookie and, unfortunately, there's a learning curve in the NFL. I think it just depends on how much a learning curve you want to go through."
Another veteran NFL executive said, "He's really less prepared [than Savage] because he's only doing pro personnel."

Savage held the title of director of player personnel with Baltimore, which meant he directly supervised the Ravens' college scouting and pro scouting departments. When Savage left in 2005 for the Browns' job, the Ravens did not fill his job. Kokinis (pro personnel) and Eric DeCosta (director of college scouting) merely reported directly to General Manager Ozzie Newsome.

"You look at the Ravens and they're built through the draft, not through free agency," observed one source.

Also, Dimitroff, the model in Atlanta, served five years as Belichick's director of college scouting with New England before making the jump to GM. Kokinis has been in the Ravens' pro personnel department for nine years -- six as director -- after working as a college scout for four years.

Ernie Accorsi offers a different opinion.

The former Browns executive -- now retired after building the New York Giants championship team -- served as a consultant for the Falcons last year when owner Arthur Blank went looking to rebuild his football operation.

"My three recommendations were Dimitroff, Tom Heckert and Kokinis," Accorsi said. "Blank really loved Dimitroff and hired him before interviewing Kokinis."

It turns out that Accorsi -- and not Belichick -- was the man responsible for bringing Kokinis to Cleveland in 1991. Kokinis had been a baseball graduate assistant at University of Richmond when Accorsi's godson played for the team. Accorsi gave Kokinis an entry level job in the Browns' operations department. After Accorsi left the following year, Belichick took Kokinis under his large wing.

"Everybody fell in love with him," Accorsi said of Kokinis, who was 24 at the time. "Hard worker, smart, a great kid. Now, over the years, I'd lost touch with him. But through my scouts [with the Giants], I got to know of him well. I'd ask about him all the time, and everybody liked him. Ozzie was really high on him."

Accorsi debunks the theory that a general manager is best qualified coming through the scouting ranks, since the draft is the lifeblood of the NFL.

"Number one, I think he did plenty of college scouting," Accorsi said. "Number two, [former NFL executive and Hall of Famer] Jim Finks always told me that for the GM job, it's more important to have a pro personnel background.

"His reasoning was you always have time to prepare for the draft. What's more important is to know the league, not only the players but what it takes to play in the league. The NFL game changes, positions change. The coaches know the league and the pro personnel guys know the league. A lot of the college scouts, they don't see the NFL games much.

"Listen, it's the person that matters, but you're better off being a pro guy because you're going to know the league. You can always get ready for the draft. Finks would preach, 'Look at pro tape, look at pro tape.'"

Newsome said he would not even entertain questions about Kokinis while he is going through the Browns' interview process.

Another NFL team executive summed up Kokinis this way: "He's a real good guy and works 24 hours a day. He's one of those guys that sleeps in the office."

Accorsi thinks Kokinis is ready to make the jump.

"The more research I did, the more I was convinced of it," Accorsi said. "He works like hell. He's a great guy. But you never know. These jobs can change people because the pressure and scrutiny is so great


http://www.cleveland.com/brown...as_his_skeptics.html

Two Years, Two Pro Bowls.

quote:

Browns GM Kokinis ousted

By Chris Mortensen and Adam Schefter
ESPN

George Kokinis is out as general manager of the Cleveland Browns after less than one year on the job. The manner in which he will make his official exit was in dispute Monday, according to team and league sources.

Kokinis refused to resign when pressed by owner Randy Lerner, who then persisted in seeking a dismissal "for cause," citing Kokinis for failing to meet the specific standards as dictated by his contract, the sources said. The team's security and legal department were reviewing phone records to build its case against Kokinis, a team source said.

There also were discussions of whether the two sides could reach a financial settlement, sources said.

Multiple media reports initially reported Kokinis had been fired.

Television station WKYC and the Cleveland Plain Dealer first reported Monday night that Kokinis was ushered out of the Berea facility by security around lunchtime Monday.

In a statement, the Browns said: "Cleveland Browns general manager George Kokinis is no longer actively involved with the organization. In response to rumors and reports that Kokinis was escorted out of the building today, the Browns deny those reports. In the interest of protecting the parties involved we will withhold further comment."

Dialogue between the two sides actually occurred for the past week before Sunday's 30-6 loss to the Bears sent the Browns reeling into the bye week with a 1-7 record. For the past month, Lerner has independently investigated professional and personal conduct by Kokinis, head coach Eric Mangini and director of football operations Erin O'Brien, who left the organization within the past few days, sources said. Mangini said Monday he had spoken with Lerner and was told his job was safe for now.

Lerner told the media after Sunday's defeat that changes were coming.

Ernie Accorsi, former general manager of the New York Giants, Baltimore Colts and Browns, is being sought by Lerner as a consultant, a league source said. Accorsi could not be reached for comment. Accorsi has served in a consulting capacity on numerous occasions for teams and has an alliance with former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar, who was hired by Lerner as a consultant on Oct. 17.

Kokinis was brought in to lead the team after the Browns had hired Mangini, who coached last year with the New York Jets. It's the first major change for a Browns team that has struggled in all aspects of the game. Lerner said Sunday night he is "sick" about the state of his NFL team but he will not make a coaching change.

Lerner told the Plain Dealer and Akron Beacon-Journal on Sunday he would like to bring in a "strong, credible, serious leader" to help run his team.

Lerner did not expand on who that person might be or if that person currently worked for the Browns.

"The highest priority that I have is a strong, credible, serious leader within the building to guide decisions in a far more conspicuous, open transparent way," Lerner said Sunday, according to the Plain Dealer. "I can maybe defend decisions by saying I've sought advice and I've brought people in, and we've gone to see people -- and I think my highest priority is to have a stable figure that represents the voice that explains the decisions."

Mangini said he would be open to such a hire.

"If you can add quality people that can help you get better, then you do that," Mangini said. "You're always searching for those opportunities."

Kokinis was supposed to be that person. Mangini handpicked him to be the team's GM -- both began their careers in Cleveland in the early 1990s when Bill Belichick was coaching the Browns.

Two Years, Two Pro Bowls.