We all have our humble opinions. The truth is that the only legit offensive weapon is Jamal Lewis who should be the mainstay. Add to that some direct snaps to Josh Cribbs and let DA try to complete something to the smurfs the Browns now have out there to catch it (trying to be positive a la old Miami smurfs). It isn't pretty, never was this year or last, but they need to get something going as they approach the time on their schedule where they can make some noise, in this case December.

The Dawg Pound has sent their message and met with Randy L (a good thing) and some shake ups have taken place. The trouble is that this team needs so much shaking, that it's as if where does it go from here.

Of course play calling is important and that is what they have done in Minny (harnessed Brett for the most part) and execution of the play calling is everything.

Maybe it's only got to go up - we can only hope (and watch).

The warning shots have been fired. Let's see where it goes during the second half of season.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP89:
I wouldn't let him choose the next ballboy!

quote:

Originally posted by jm99:

quote:

In Mangini's press conference he states he'll be in discussions in picking the new GM.

WOW. I hope this is not true, because no one with any credibility would even consider coming to Cleveland if that were true. It sounds like Mangini would just be looking for another stooge.

Hopefully his part of the discussion will be, "Yes Mr. Lerener".

We are doomed if Mangini has anything to do with who the GM is, he should've been the one who got canned.

quote:

Originally posted by BrownB:
We are doomed if Mangini has anything to do with who the GM is, he should've been the one who got canned.

UH a little too early to make that statement. For one we still have no idea as to the real reason Kokinis was fired. It seems by the way everyone is tight lipped about it that there are legal issues here. We shall see.

quote:

UH a little too early to make that statement. For one we still have no idea as to the real reason Kokinis was fired. It seems by the way everyone is tight lipped about it that there are legal issues here. We shall see.

That part may be true, but what is becoming clearer by the day is that Mangini and Mangini alone has been making all the decisions that have resulted in the Browns being much worse than even the 1999 season. He has to answer for this.

Would any of you make trades that might make you worse this year (difference between 6-10 and 2-14) when it can make you better next year and beyond?

I would make those trades any time. If the changes drop you out of real playoff contention then you stay the course and milk a productive season. If it only changed your level of suckitude then the future must be considered.

The browns weren't going to be in the playoffs this year. Two malcontents were let go to improve the team for the future, plus it gets rid of people who might undermine the coach's efforts to build a foundation.

I would make that trade every time depending upon what we received in exchange. If the scouting department does a great job we can get good players with most of those picks.

quote:

Originally posted by Spiritbro77:

quote:

Originally posted by Upbeat Dawg:
[QUOTE] The usual shake up...but I see Randy ain't messing around with simple message. He wants a change in direction...maybe not coaching but in direction. Getting rid of the OC now would not help anything just cause more CHAOS and bring in a new play book. It ain't the plays...its the execution.

Eo, I agree with what you said about the execution, but I strongly disagree with the plays being called.

Why in the hell would you not run deeper routes with DA in the game?

QB sneak on 1st and 10. nuff said...

quote:

Originally posted by magician300:
I apologize if I missed this skimming through the initial Kokinis thread but The News Herald is reporting that Ernie Accorsi is back as our GM; can't find any other news stories stating the same thing:


George Kokinis was fired Monday as general manager and escorted from Browns headquarters, according to league sources. The Browns are not confirming the reports.

Hours later, sources said Ernie Accorsi was hired as the team's GM. The move is a blast from the past for Browns' fans. Accorsi was the Browns' GM from 1985 to 1992.

He also served as GM of the Colts from 1982 to 83, and also worked in the Giants' front office from 1994 to 2004, including a stint as New York's GM from 1998 and on.

In 2004, he spearheaded a trade to get No. 1 pick Eli Manning from the Chargers.

Kokinis has been on the hot seat for more than three weeks, the source said. The ax falls one day after Browns owner Randy Lerner said he plans on hiring a strong football personality to run the Browns.

The firing comes at the start of the bye week.

Kokinis was hired Jan. 23 at the urging of Browns coach Eric Mangini. Lerner has said Mangini's job is safe for now.

More to come as details become available. Tuesday's print editions will have a full report.


http://news-herald.com/article...sports/nh1647108.txt

It's funny they said spearheaded the Eli trade. sounded more like eli and his Dad lead the charge and they were merely tying up the loose ends for the trade. As far as Accorsi the G.M. I doubt if it is permanent. If it was, they would have publicly announced it. I think he is a temporary G.M. until the search for the new G.M. is finished and hired.

Mangini may have a say, but it might not carry much weight. Lerner said he would not fire mangini during the bye week. Not exactly a guarantee his future is solid in cleveland. I find it hard hard to believe lerner is supporting the decisions of mangini, with the results he is seeing from those decisions.

I still do not believe Mangini will have a single bit of influence in the decision. A reporter asked him if he would, and what is he realistically going to say. "Well, look guys, I've screwed up pretty much everything here. They're not going to consult me, and I'm going to be held accountable for my actions, and would be surprised if I even held this position at this time next year". Of course he isn't going to say that. I'm sure he can spin it however he wants, but there is just no way he will. If it turns out he did, and we're in the same position next year with a weak front office that was again hand picked by Mangini, there would officially be no hope for a 10 year "process" let alone a 3 year one.

quote:

Originally posted by SIPE:
We fired Kokinis for Mangini's mistakes. Plain and simple. This just shows that Lerner is a joke. We should've fired Mangini and let Rob Ryan take over as interim HC. I'd love to hire Marty but based on his quotes he won't come here. I'd like to clean up our coaching staff and hire a solid GM and maybe hire Mike Shannahan for HC. We hire Shannahan, and we will run the football. We should keep Ryan as DC and hire a good OC like Mike Martz. We haven't hired experienced and successful coaches since our return in '99. That points straight to the Lerner family and the coaches themselves.
We also blew the '09 draft. Looks like only Mack and Massaquoi will be starters for the future. Then again, we refuse to see what the young guys like Hall and Francais can do. That is what kills me. This year is a wash. We should play the young guys and see what they can do. We may have 11 picks but now we need everything. IF WE DON'T FIRE MANGINI, NO FA'S WILL WANT TO COME TO CLEVELAND. We almost have to hire Gruden, Shannahan, Marty, Cowher, ect. A coach that has league wide respect. Randy, can't you see that you need to cut the head off the beast (mangini) in order to restore this franchise????

Keeping Mangini and Firing kokonis solves NOTHING. Another gutless Lerner move. Mangini stubbornly playing DA and an epic Raven Beatdown may clear out the stands.

I think that Kokini's firing was independent of this team's performance. Remember, Kokinis was "fired with cause". To me, that sounds like he broke company policy in some way, shape, or form.

lerner will not sign a new g.m. until the offseason. thats simply based upon the fact that in order to find a "credible" g.m. takes time. he will more than likely spend much of the remaining season interviewing candidates. by then it will be, season over. i myself dont have a problem with that (after all we all know the browns are out of the playoff picture). i say, take your time randy and get it right.

im going out on a limb here. but am i the only one who feels that we may allready have a head coach in Rob Ryan. i watch every game and i see how he does have the defense playing very well. which is not evident in the stats based upon how the offense is dismal at best. but the defense in whole is solid. plus, tell me who the last coach we had is that actually showed emotion. you can clearly see him on the sideline (often irate due to bad officiating, or poor play), going ballistic. this much is true of todays NFL. it is approximately 50% physical and 50% emotional. in other words, let an emotional guy lead you. like i said, im goin out on a limb here. anybodies thaughts?

quote:

Originally posted by kemokay:
im going out on a limb here. but am i the only one who feels that we may allready have a head coach in Rob Ryan. i watch every game and i see how he does have the defense playing very well. which is not evident in the stats based upon how the offense is dismal at best. but the defense in whole is solid. plus, tell me who the last coach we had is that actually showed emotion. you can clearly see him on the sideline (often irate due to bad officiating, or poor play), going ballistic. this much is true of todays NFL. it is approximately 50% physical and 50% emotional. in other words, let an emotional guy lead you. like i said, im goin out on a limb here. anybodies thaughts?

I feel the same. I wrote a post on Ryan, but it has since been deleted. I think we have a better shot turning the team over to Ryan with a solid leader with football knowledge in the front office, than staying status quo.

I wish everyone had Ryan's passion and fire. He's one of the few bright spots in Browns coaching since 99.

quote:

Originally posted by kemokay:
im going out on a limb here. but am i the only one who feels that we may allready have a head coach in Rob Ryan. [..] but the defense in whole is solid. [..] anybodies thaughts?

Are you serious? Perhaps you have not checked the seasons stats for defensive rankings.
Cleveland is DEAD last!

quote:

Are you serious? Perhaps you have not checked the seasons stats for defensive rankings.
Cleveland is DEAD last!

If Mangini happens to get canned I wouldn't mind Rob Ryan stepping in on an interim basis to see what he can do ala Mike Singletary. And quite honestly I could care less about "stats" at this point. I think the defense's rank has as much to do with the dreadful offense as anything. Of course your going to be last in the league when you're on the field 2/3 of the game because the offense continually goes 3 and out.

Personally, I like the defense that he's "trying" to run. At least we're showing signs of life on defense. I mean, it's not Ryan's fault that we are so sorely lacking for talent on that side of the ball. Ryan at least shows some passion on the sidelines and genuinely seems to care.

Lerner denies firing Kokinis, seeks NFL general to help shape Browns

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...riters#ixzz0W26DUHeU

quote:

Cleveland Browns owner Randy Lerner, under fire after parting ways with general manager George Kokinis midway through his first season as GM, denied today that Kokinis had been fired and said he hoped to find a veteran NFL general manager-type like Ernie Accorsi or Mike Holmgren to help shape the organization and help embattled coach Eric Mangini.

"George is no longer active within our organization, but at this time has not been fired,'' Lerner said in a telephone interview.

This could be simple semantics because it's widely expected the Browns will attempt to cancel the remainder of Kokinis' five-year contract without paying him, citing "for cause'' and contending that he wasn't doing his job.

The story is shrouded in mystery, and Lerner no-commented almost all specific elements of it. He said he "began to have doubts'' about Kokinis by training camp, but wouldn't be specific.

Click here to read Don Banks' analysis on the Browns debacle, including comments from sources close to Kokinis.

Lerner has to be wondering about the kind of work environment Mangini has created, now that two of the people the coach wanted to help him shape the organization -- director of team operations Erin O'Brien, brought jn from the Jets by Mangini, and Kokinis, hired away from the Ravens -- have left the team in the past couple of weeks, and no one will explain their departures. "It's not a happy building to be working in right now,'' said one source who is friendly with many Browns employees. That could be one of the reasons Lerner wants a veteran NFL leader in the building -- to see not only why the Browns are a woebegone 1-7 with little hope for the future, but also why the first 10 months of the Mangini regime have gone so haywire.

NFL sources have told SI.com's Don Banks that almost from the time Kokinis took over as GM last winter that Mangini didn't live up to the terms of Kokinis' contract,, which mandated that the GM had final control of the 53-man roster. Another league source said he has been told the Browns will contend that Kokinis never tried to assert that authority, despite repeated attempts from the organization higher-ups urging him to take a stronger role in team affairs. If that's the case, then the team likely has documented his perceived failings.

The Browns have had a disastrous year, dating to the firing of general manager Phil Savage with four years left on his contract and coach Romeo Crennel with three remaining years. The Browns owe Savage and Crennel an estimated $21 million. Mangini is in the first year of a reported four-year, $12-million deal, while Kokinis was believed to be making slightly more than $1 million per year. If the team parts ways with Mangini after the season, that's another $9 million the Browns will owe a former employee.

Asked about Mangini's fate, Lerner said, "I still believe in Eric, and we're trying to give him the resources he needs to be successful. We all knew the situation we were in when Eric took over.''

Lerner wouldn't comment on specific candidates to take the role of organizational godfather, but he's clearly looking for a Bill Parcells-type leader who'd be able to help Mangini -- or his successor -- navigate the minefields of the job. Accorsi retired from the Giants in January 2007, while Holmgren stepped down as Seattle coach last January after formerly being both coach and general manager. Accorsi has told the Cleveland Plain Dealer he's not interested in a full-time job. But these two men clearly fit the profile of what Lerner wants -- a man who has had Super Bowl success and helped build winning franchises.

The Browns' owner will have a difficult decision to make after the season. Cleveland will have a high first-round draft choice in April, with a major need at quarterback, and the quarterback crop will be strong. The Savage-Crennel regime drafted Brady Quinn in 2007, but Mangini never had a strong belief in Quinn. So after 10 quarters at the helm of the team in September, Quinn was replaced by Derek Anderson, who has performed miserably. Even if Quinn gets the job back sometime this year, it will be by default. Sources say there's no way the team will bring back Quinn in 2010.

If Lerner has major doubts about Mangini come January, his decision about whether to go after a new coach will be doubly difficult. If Lerner thinks Mangini might be a short-timer, he could be inclined to plunge into the deep pool of coaching candidates come the offseason.

Fire this guy. Fire that guy. Hire this guy. Hire that guy. Then start the same process, over and over and over.

Junior, like a lot of the fan base, still has not learned his lesson.

you couldnt possibly blame lerner if he were to fire mangini. after all how can you trust the guy with all of his shady antics. as for past coaches, well they were given at least 3 yrs. to show some sort of improvment. instead all we were given was the downward spiral by ALL of 'em. i feel if you cant show some promise within 2 to 3 yrs. then hit the bricks.

quote:

Originally posted by Versatile Dog:
Fire this guy. Fire that guy. Hire this guy. Hire that guy. Then start the same process, over and over and over.

Junior, like a lot of the fan base, still has not learned his lesson.

I hear ya vers, but do you honestly think we should keep mangini? i mean this guy is highly disliked around the league. how are we going to attract free agents here? Also, HOW THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO GET E GOOD GM IN HERE? Who would want to take a job knowing the coach is already in place and he can't choose his own coach? it just doesnt make sense

quote:

Originally posted by Slick:
I hear ya vers, but do you honestly think we should keep mangini? i mean this guy is highly disliked around the league.

This isnt a popularity contest.

quote:

Originally posted by Slick:
how are we going to attract free agents here?

Money.

quote:

Originally posted by Slick:
Also, HOW THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO GET E GOOD GM IN HERE?

Better question but ultimately there answer is still money I think. Lerner will have to guarantee control a little more firmly than he did with Kokinis. New GM has to implant himself as the leader of the FO.

quote:

Originally posted by Slick:
Who would want to take a job knowing the coach is already in place and he can't choose his own coach? it just doesnt make sense

Some GM's might agree with his philosophy. Players 'seem' to like him. As long as he doesnt have ultimate power, Mangini should be just fine. It really sounds like it wasnt working with ManKok but who knows what will come with the new GM. Mangini might just resign if most of his FO power is removed.

No way mangini quits, he knows this is probably his last chance for a HC gig.

My guess is that there will be fingernail marks on the walls and floors if / when he is removed

quote:

Originally posted by kemokay:
im going out on a limb here. but am i the only one who feels that we may allready have a head coach in Rob Ryan. i watch every game and i see how he does have the defense playing very well. which is not evident in the stats based upon how the offense is dismal at best. but the defense in whole is solid. plus, tell me who the last coach we had is that actually showed emotion. you can clearly see him on the sideline (often irate due to bad officiating, or poor play), going ballistic. this much is true of todays NFL. it is approximately 50% physical and 50% emotional. in other words, let an emotional guy lead you. like i said, im goin out on a limb here. anybodies thaughts?

I wrote a post about him last week but it got deleted :-( I agree. I like the improvement I see in the defense (though he doesn't have much to work with). Yeah, their stats suck but they are on the field ALL the time. I love his fire and competitiveness and I like that he takes responsibility for poor play instead of giving us a lot of corporate-speak. He has good experience and a decent record with other teams. I would like him to stick around.

quote:

Originally posted by SGTB:

quote:

Originally posted by BrownB:
We are doomed if Mangini has anything to do with who the GM is, he should've been the one who got canned.

UH a little too early to make that statement. For one we still have no idea as to the real reason Kokinis was fired. It seems by the way everyone is tight lipped about it that there are legal issues here. We shall see.

No not really, Mangini has been the shot caller who built this roster and needs to take the blame for it. He has no claim to say who should be the GM which will the one he should answer to.

quote:

Originally posted by Versatile Dog:
Fire this guy. Fire that guy. Hire this guy. Hire that guy. Then start the same process, over and over and over.

Junior, like a lot of the fan base, still has not learned his lesson.

Stockholm syndrome, yeah blame the fans. This is a Lerner fiasco and has been for over 10 years. rookie Gms, poor coaches trying to work with substandard talent and the fans Paying to watch this crap...but blame the fans for not putting on a smiley face.

Kokinis lost power struggle with Mangini

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c..._banks/11/05/browns/


By now, I imagine your typical Cleveland Browns fan has started to look back on 1996-98, the three seasons they had no NFL team to follow, with a mixture of nostalgia and fondness. Given the almost constant state of despair Browns fans have resided in since the franchise was re-born as an expansion entry in 1999, who could blame them for remembering those days as relatively pain-free compared to the misery to come?

This week's surprisingly sudden departure/dismissal of general manager George Kokinis -- who was literally shown the door Monday night, just eight games into his first season on the job -- may be the ultimate example of the instability and dysfunction that reigns within the Browns organization.

Multiple NFL sources I spoke to this week about Kokinis's brief and tumultuous tenure painted a portrait of a deeply flawed working relationship between Kokinis and first-year Browns head coach Eric Mangini, one that soured almost immediately despite the long and close friendship the men had enjoyed, and the fact Mangini had hand-picked Kokinis for the job and recommended him to Browns owner Randy Lerner.

Click here to read Peter King's column about Lerner's side of the story and what he plans to do in the Browns front office.

League sources with direct knowledge of the situation say Kokinis quickly found himself caught in an inner-organizational power struggle with Mangini that he was both ill-equipped to fight in terms of having established allies in the building, and temperamentally disinclined to wage. Sources said Kokinis felt marginalized within the Browns front office, lacked anything close to the personnel decision-making authority his contract called for, and was ultimately scape-goated by Mangini when the repeated failures by the Browns (1-7) this season intensified the heat on the new coach.

"He thought he was getting the job of a lifetime working with one of his best friends, but it wasn't that at all,'' said a league source who is familiar with both Kokinis and the Browns organization. "It was working for Eric Mangini, not with him. Eric was in charge of everything, and George resented that. It wasn't the job he thought he'd taken. It wasn't the partnership as he thought it would be. And he would have never taken it if he thought it was going to go that way.

"Ultimately what happened was he started to question his own existence in the organization. He was very unhappy. He takes the job, and from day one it was like they both had recipes for chicken soup, but they ended up trying to combine the recipes and all they did was ruin the dish.''

When the Browns, at Mangini's behest, hired Kokinis away from Baltimore, where he was the Ravens pro personnel director, Cleveland had to grant him final authority over personnel decision-making for the job to qualify as a promotion instead of a lateral move. That decision-making power was a sticking point early in negotiations between the Browns and Kokinis, a source said, but the Ravens demanded it be part of the deal in exchange for releasing Kokinis from his contract.

Multiple sources said Kokinis had some misgivings about leaving Baltimore, because he enjoyed his job in the Ravens' well-respected personnel department and his wife loved living in the area. But he was persuaded to take the job by Mangini, with whom he once roomed with in Cleveland when both were low-level employees in the Browns' Bill Belichick era of the mid-90s.

Mangini and Kokinis had remained close, and Mangini, as the Jets new head coach in 2006, had tried unsuccessfully to hire his old friend away from the Ravens personnel department. Baltimore blocked the move that time, but each summer Kokinis continued to deliver the keynote address at Mangini's Connecticut-based charitable foundation, and even had the role of awarding a new computer to one lucky student each year.

But the final personnel authority that Kokinis thought he had secured upon taking the Browns job is said to have wound up being a reality on paper only, as Mangini dominated all issues regarding player acquisition and evaluation.

"Two weeks into it, George is sitting there saying, 'Why am I here?' '' said another league source. "George gets there and finds out he's a glorified personnel director. He gets out-voted on every front, and he doesn't really have the personality to fight that. He went along with it and hoped it worked out, but it didn't.''

According to a league source, the two men came into their working relationship with different ideas of how their partnership would work in the Browns front office. Kokinis thought it would be modeled after Baltimore, where longtime general manager Ozzie Newsome has had successful, power-sharing partnerships with head coaches Brian Billick and John Harbaugh.

But it quickly became apparent to Kokinis, a source said, that Mangini intended to run things more like his former mentor, Patriots head coach Bill Belichick, who has final say and speaks as the only voice of the organization. In that role, the expectation for Kokinis apparently was for him to be like the seldom-seen and seldom-heard Scott Pioli in New England, the respected ex-Patriots personnel man who left this year to take the Chiefs general manager position.

The difference in management approaches led to conflict between Mangini and Kokinis when different opinions surfaced in regard to personnel matters.



Sorry if this is a repost.
Makes ya wonder about the next GM, and what for power he will have.

Dover_Dawg ... you forgot page 2. It gets even worse. What friggin mess.


"Mangini thought he needed him, and wanted him there, but he thought George would be compliant once he got the job,'' a league source said. "George is a huge believer in going young and building through the draft, and Eric is too, to a degree. But he's influenced by Belichick and Bill Parcells, and you know how they are, they both want their guys. They want their old players who know the system and the culture they're trying to build. Even at the expense of good young players.

"So they sign a bunch of old Jets that Mangini had in New York. And they trade Kellen Winslow, and stay away from [drafting] Mark Sanchez, and trade Braylon Edwards for a bunch of Jets cast-offs. Just Jets cast-offs. They just had a different way of doing things, and it caused issues.''

The different approaches to personnel led to different evaluations of the direction the Browns should go at the game's most crucial position, quarterback. Mangini benched Brady Quinn, the team's No. 1 pick in 2007, three games into the season, and switched to veteran Derek Anderson, who has performed so dismally that Mangini re-inserted Quinn late in last week's loss to Chicago. With his Browns currently in their bye week, Mangini is again pondering a switch at starting quarterback.

"I'm sure that was the first real red flag for George, with Mangini naming Quinn the starter and then pulling him after 10 quarters this season,'' a league source said. "George couldn't have been comfortable with that. I've even heard that George didn't know that Braylon Edwards was being traded until it happened.

"He just got caught in a power struggle, and he had no allies there. It was a stacked deck against him when he got there, and then it completely went against him as things evolved. George is a loyalist if there's ever been one, but he was in a very tough spot. George is a victim right now. But there have been other victims in Cleveland along the way. Some of them just survived longer than he did.''

In a session with the Cleveland-area media Tuesday, Mangini deflected most questions about Kokinis's abrupt departure, saying "I can tell you that for a variety of reasons things didn't work out. You never go into a situation like this with the intention of it not working out. We felt that, organizationally, this was the best decision in order to move forward."

In recent weeks, Kokinis knew his influence had diminished so dramatically within the organization in relation to Mangini's that sources said he was not surprised by his removal Monday. Browns president Mike Kennan and vice-president of football administration Dawn Aponte are believed to have aligned themselves with Mangini in the power struggle, further isolating Kokinis within his own building.

"As Eric started taking on more and more power, [Kokinis] kind of saw what was happening and really kind of withdrew,'' a league source said. "George has a great work ethic, and he'd rather sit and watch tape in his office than anything else. He figured out where things were headed. The owner hired Eric Mangini. George was basically hired by Mangini. So if you're in that front office, who are you going to side with? It's not that tough to figure out. I think he's known for about two months now what was coming.''

According to sources, Lerner asked Kokinis to resign, and when Kokinis refused, made it clear to Kokinis the club would seek a dismissal "for cause,'' citing a lack of performance of his duties as GM. That would allow the Browns to contend they have no obligation to pay the balance of the five-year contract (at about $1 million per year) it gave Kokinis in January.

"They're going to look at his phone records and try to make some case that says he was trying to give away trade secrets to other teams or something,'' a league source said. "But it's not going to stick. It won't work. They're just trying to find something to prove a lack of performance.''

A league source said Kokinis has retained a "high-profile" attorney with experience arguing against the NFL to represent him in the event the Browns continue to contest his contract. "I think George is going to kick ass, and the Browns will end up caving in,'' a league source said. "I don't think they have a leg to stand on.''

While Mangini, by all accounts, won his power struggle with his longtime friend and former roommate and consolidated his own power, multiple sources say he is far from safe as the Browns head coach beyond the second half of this season. Lerner, sources said, is dissatisfied with Mangini's performance as well, and will likely bow to the public pressure calling for a new Browns head coach in 2010.

"So this week they sacrificed George Kokinis,'' a league source said. "They stuck his head on a stick, stuck it out the window and the fans cheered. For all of about 20 minutes. But then it's, 'Wait a minute. This isn't really the guy who was responsible.' This is Randy Lerner being under the spell of Eric Mangini. To a degree. [Mangini's] done at the end of the year. And a lot of it is deserved. He's got no chance at this point. The fans are never going to accept the guy. It just wasn't his turn [to go] yet.''

For all of you who want Mangini gone you can forget about it. In an email response to Tony Grossi's questions. RL stated that he does not foresee any circumstance that would prevent Eric mangini from coming back and being the coach in 2010.

Asked if he would try and lure Cowher again and RL again stated that "we already have a coach."

Like it or not it is what it is. I have not seen any reason for the vote of confidence. I am tired of blowing things up and starting over as much is the next guy and I would be ok if Mangini would be back next year but please Browns give me a reason to support this guy as coach.

quote:

Originally posted by FlapJack:
Dover_Dawg ... you forgot page 2. It gets even worse. What friggin mess.

Thanks Flap, was in too much of a rush to get coffee, and a smoke to notice.

IMO Randy must be up to the challenge to crack this nut, and do it right the next time around. Next thing on the agenda should be...release Mangini, hire a GM that will select his coach, and do things the right way.
I would think this would be the ultimate challenge for Randy considering how bad for how long the Browns have been, and it won't get any better by sticking with Mangini, and bringing in yet another inferior GM.

It's funny how the basis of the firing of Kokinis was lack of duties / performance, which to this point has been all Mangini...the wrong guy got the axe for sure.

This was a good move. Mangini will probably be gone at the end of the season, maybe sooner if we don't beat the Lions. This is a step in the right direction.

quote:

Originally posted by Dover_Dawg:

quote:

Originally posted by FlapJack:
Dover_Dawg ... you forgot page 2. It gets even worse. What friggin mess.

Thanks Flap, was in too much of a rush to get coffee, and a smoke to notice.

IMO Randy must be up to the challenge to crack this nut, and do it right the next time around. Next thing on the agenda should be...release Mangini, hire a GM that will select his coach, and do things the right way.
I would think this would be the ultimate challenge for Randy considering how bad for how long the Browns have been, and it won't get any better by sticking with Mangini, and bringing in yet another inferior GM.

It's funny how the basis of the firing of Kokinis was lack of duties / performance, which to this point has been all Mangini...the wrong guy got the axe for sure.

The new GM will want his own coach so you may get your wish. Mangini will probably be the next guy to go!

quote:

Originally posted by Dawgcitizen:
This was a good move. Mangini will probably be gone at the end of the season, maybe sooner if we don't beat the Lions.

Not only that, but he also has the upcoming draft that will make or break him if he's still in place.

quote:

QB sneak on 1st and 10. nuff said...

Sorry to say this...but that is exactly what I'm talking about regarding fans and their basic knowledge of what transpired.
QB sneak...was an audible, pure n simple.

BQ saw both DTs playing 3 technique and called the audible...I think he gained 3 yards could have been more.

If he gets 7 on something like that they got to respect the A gap more. Which then opens up the Middle passes and outside runs.

But that was an audible.

As for Kokinis...him leaving, him not officially fired, him not going to get paid the length of his contract. Smells of something personal and not even football related. Something with possibly him and Erin O'Brien??? Something maybe unethical, talking to other teams? I don't know what but something bad enough to walk away without compensation. I don't think it was this power thing with Mangini his long time FRIEND. I don't believe it. And none of these reports have any sources but "UNAMED" - it can be anyone with their INTERPRETATION...the ones in the REAL KNOW are MUM!!!

Its not like the Media was writing anything favorable about Mangini before this. Of course they will make him look like the EVIL one - did you expect different from the BOZO's.

If a new GM is coming here and Mangini is the HC, I most definitely would hope he's in the process. It doesn't mean the guy becomes his "YES MAN" it mean the guy is on the same page and has the same philosophies involved. I would want that in a GM.

I'm glad I keep hearing the words now of Accorsi and Holmgren as two for the process.

"Randy Lerner, said he hoped to find a veteran NFL general manager-type like Ernie Accorsi or Mike Holmgren to help shape the organization and help embattled coach Eric Mangini."

We are not firing our program as first believed. I don't see a tear em down build them up situation. I see something happened. Something we don't know about and ONE YAPPING UNAMED "LEAGUE SOURCE" spewing garbage as if he is in the KNOW. He even states George's Attorney is going to kick our ass and that we are NOW searching for some evidence...lol

League source my butt. When we know at the least that the Browns security has been investigating Kokinis for the last 3 weeks and upon that evidence - Which means whatever it is we have the goods on him. To fire Erin O'Brien and ask Kokinis to resign, there has to be a connection with the two. And the only leg Kokinis has to stand on will be if his HIGH POWER lawyer will be able to suppress the evidence against him.

But Vers...I don't see the end of this Regime. I see Kokinis leaving us and I really don't think it has much to do about the organization that will topple it. Yes, the team needed a kick in the Butt! Coaches on down.

What I see is a strong GM coming here like Holmgren or Accorsi not my words but Randy's that will make this work...and if in 3 years time we aren't heading in the right direction this STRONG GM will put the pieces together.

When all is said and done. I think Randy is going to give Holmgren and offer he can't refuse and as noted before he was on a very, very short list of my personal wishes as a fan.

Just a media gold mine to bash Mangini in any way they can. As stated, I don't know but I'm getting bits and pieces and for Randy to not pay Kokinis a Whopping 5 mil which is nothing for a Firing of this magnitude. It has to be about something ELSE...something bad that Kokinis was doing something unprofessional.

JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by eotab:

quote:

QB sneak on 1st and 10. nuff said...

Sorry to say this...but that is exactly what I'm talking about regarding fans and their basic knowledge of what transpired.
QB sneak...was an audible, pure n simple.

BQ saw both DTs playing 3 technique and called the audible...I think he gained 3 yards could have been more.

If he gets 7 on something like that they got to respect the A gap more. Which then opens up the Middle passes and outside runs.

But that was an audible.

As for Kokinis...him leaving, him not officially fired, him not going to get paid the length of his contract. Smells of something personal and not even football related. Something with possibly him and Erin O'Brien??? Something maybe unethical, talking to other teams? I don't know what but something bad enough to walk away without compensation. I don't think it was this power thing with Mangini his long time FRIEND. I don't believe it. And none of these reports have any sources but "UNAMED" - it can be anyone with their INTERPRETATION...the ones in the REAL KNOW are MUM!!!

Its not like the Media was writing anything favorable about Mangini before this. Of course they will make him look like the EVIL one - did you expect different from the BOZO's.

If a new GM is coming here and Mangini is the HC, I most definitely would hope he's in the process. It doesn't mean the guy becomes his "YES MAN" it mean the guy is on the same page and has the same philosophies involved. I would want that in a GM.

I'm glad I keep hearing the words now of Accorsi and Holmgren as two for the process.

"Randy Lerner, said he hoped to find a veteran NFL general manager-type like Ernie Accorsi or Mike Holmgren to help shape the organization and help embattled coach Eric Mangini."

We are not firing our program as first believed. I don't see a tear em down build them up situation. I see something happened. Something we don't know about and ONE YAPPING UNAMED "LEAGUE SOURCE" spewing garbage as if he is in the KNOW. He even states George's Attorney is going to kick our ass and that we are NOW searching for some evidence...lol

League source my butt. When we know at the least that the Browns security has been investigating Kokinis for the last 3 weeks and upon that evidence - Which means whatever it is we have the goods on him. To fire Erin O'Brien and ask Kokinis to resign, there has to be a connection with the two. And the only leg Kokinis has to stand on will be if his HIGH POWER lawyer will be able to suppress the evidence against him.

But Vers...I don't see the end of this Regime. I see Kokinis leaving us and I really don't think it has much to do about the organization that will topple it. Yes, the team needed a kick in the Butt! Coaches on down.

What I see is a strong GM coming here like Holmgren or Accorsi not my words but Randy's that will make this work...and if in 3 years time we aren't heading in the right direction this STRONG GM will put the pieces together.

When all is said and done. I think Randy is going to give Holmgren and offer he can't refuse and as noted before he was on a very, very short list of my personal wishes as a fan.

Just a media gold mine to bash Mangini in any way they can. As stated, I don't know but I'm getting bits and pieces and for Randy to not pay Kokinis a Whopping 5 mil which is nothing for a Firing of this magnitude. It has to be about something ELSE...something bad that Kokinis was doing something unprofessional.

JMHO

Good to see you have the blinders on again...Do you have the think the media is right on anything?

there is absolutely NO WAY a respectable GM takes the job w/o being able to bring in his own coach

Do you honestly think Holmgren or Accorsi takes the job with having to keep Mangini????

quote:

Good to see you have the blinders on again...Do you have the think the media is right on anything?

there is absolutely NO WAY a respectable GM takes the job w/o being able to bring in his own coach

Do you honestly think Holmgren or Accorsi takes the job with having to keep Mangini????

Good to see you have the blinders on again...Do you have the think the media is right on anything?

there is absolutely NO WAY a respectable GM takes the job w/o being able to bring in his own coach

Do you honestly think Holmgren or Accorsi takes the job with having to keep Mangini????

Other than "the blinders on" shot I agree with you on everything else. When I post I try and not take a shot at people for their opinion.

I don't think that any respectable FO guy will take the job with the Browns if Mangini has to be the coach. When Parcells was hired he fired Cam Cameron immediately after going 1-15.

quote:

Originally posted by makeaplay:

quote:

Good to see you have the blinders on again...Do you have the think the media is right on anything?

there is absolutely NO WAY a respectable GM takes the job w/o being able to bring in his own coach

Do you honestly think Holmgren or Accorsi takes the job with having to keep Mangini????

Good to see you have the blinders on again...Do you have the think the media is right on anything?

there is absolutely NO WAY a respectable GM takes the job w/o being able to bring in his own coach

Do you honestly think Holmgren or Accorsi takes the job with having to keep Mangini????

Other than "the blinders on" shot I agree with you on everything else. When I post I try and not take a shot at people for their opinion.

I don't think that any respectable FO guy will take the job with the Browns if Mangini has to be the coach. When Parcells was hired he fired Cam Cameron immediately after going 1-15.

Exactly

EO has some sorta love for Mangini and it seems to be blinding his thought process

Heck, even Pioli didn't want the job w/Mangini coming to town

Apparently, one of the telling issues was the final say of the 53, trades etc.....that´s an issue the new GM and Mangini need to get straightened out...they can´t both have it....Holmgren is gonna let Mangini have final say..??..doubt it.

quote:

EO has some sorta love for Mangini and it seems to be blinding his thought process
Heck, even Pioli didn't want the job w/Mangini coming to town

Yeah I got a love thing with Mangini...thanks for the insult. Makeaplay just explained to you to have a disagreeing opinion but why insult someone. So you go and insult me in a more attacking fashion personally and nothing to with opinion.

So if a strong GM comes here I agree at some point he probably will bring his own HC in. But I also believe in the words of Randy... "to help shape the organization and help embattled coach Eric Mangini."

In other words...see this thing through. When it is successful and Mangini moves on, said, GM will hand pick the successor. If it continues to struggle and does not work. It won't be Both GM n HC going - Mangini would be gone. EVEN if its after this season, then so be it.

The GM of power will remain and bring his HC of choice. But make no mistake about it. Randy the HMIC still believes in what Mangini wants to build here. as he said, He would bring in the power guy "to help shape the organization and help embattled coach Eric Mangini."

First and foremost. A guy like Holmgren would want to be here for 5-10 years ideally. He would settle in and help make Lemonade of course eventually bringing in a HC of his choice. But if Mangini is working to continue with it. If after the season is over and in review advise Randy that Mangini is not the way to go...he would have to have REASON and explain why. Then we move on.

But to call me blind and a LOVER of somebody out of complete IGNORANCE when I provide a quote from Randy regarding his belief in the Mangini PROGRAM and the fact that you would think a strong GM would not be able to work with Mangini...when he an obvious pecking order is in place. Your assumption is that Mangini is what the BOZO's say he is. You completely ignore the POSSIBILITY THAT A HOLGREN or ACCORSI actually might like the path we are taking and WORK WITH IT?

The key word is POSSIBILITY. Just remember these are the same BOZO's who nicknamed Mangini...Mangenius, Which is it. I don't see their change in MANGENIUS due to football I see the medias change from him blowing the whistle on Bellicheck. That is why I don't respect their BIASED BS CRAPOLA on Mangini...I have thought, common sense and reasons for my opinion. Not stupidity like "LOVE"... Just ignorance + at its highest level.

makeaplay...thank you for your post and I do disagree with you and agree with you if you know what I mean. Eventually the strong GM will bring his guy in. But I think in the process they will try to get a nice batch of lemonade from the PRESENT...and then work from there. If it means change in 2010, so be it. If going well 3 or more years...But he will be the Football guy IN CHARGE and Mangini working under him. Which doesn't mean they can't work together. It might Improve Mangini as a HC???

In other words the important thing to me is GET THE POWER GM...if Mangini stays great, if he goes it will be when the Power GM is ready but I truly think he will first make the most of the PRESENT SITUATION. Then do what he has to do IF NECESSARY.

as always JMHO...and no love thing involved.