Ok I'm assuming now that DA is benched, Quinn is officially the man here in Cleveland.

So this means we've got one of, if not the highest paid back-up in the league in Derek Anderson, and I see that as a problem.

here's what I know so far

we gave derek 7 mill when he signed his contract originally

as of june 1st i believe, he'd be due another 5 million dollar signing bonus

and if he's on the year later, he'd be due another 2 mill. dollar bonus

What I don't know is what happens with the contract if he gets cut or traded before his 5 million dollar bonus is due

do all the bonus' get paid when that happens because it's all guaranteed money?

what really, are the browns options?

Not exactly sure but I know the only bonuses that get escalated immediately to the cap are signing bonuses that are spread out over the contract. Which means..

- DA gets his signing bonus and 2008 salary (around 8 million?)
- The Browns are NOT on the hook for roster bonuses if he is cut/traded before the deadline (June 1st?).

Really, giving him $8 million for this year isn't bad, especially since Quinn isn't making any money. We found out what we needed to and avoided any insane signing bonuses like Bulger/Schaub.

As far as I know, he only gets like 3-4 mil a year, but I'm not totally sure.

Anyway, what happens is we renegotiate his contract in the offseason, or trade/cut him. I think plenty of teams would love to have DA, he might not have done so well here, but plenty of coaches around the league will see his ability and understand what I have always understood. If someone can teach him touch passing and really get it into his head, he could be a great QB.

Almost all of his problems circulate around how hard he throws the ball. It causes him to be inaccurate, it causes drops by receivers, it can be fixed. DA hasn;t thrown many INT's in the last 5 games, he is not really all that bad of a QB, but it's a little hard for a guy to focus when the CLE fans chant BRADY BRADY BRADY whenever he makes a mistake.

I think Crennel mentioned this. He saw his QB struggle and even though the chants came after the game was out of reach, it's been a re-occurring problem for a while. DA had already had a bad game, his confidence was already low, but I really think RAC pulled the plug b/c he knew that as long as BQ was on the bench the fans were going to drive the bullet further in on any mistakes made by DA. You feel bad enough loosing a game, feel even worse if it was your fault, but adding 70,000 people who hate you chanting in unison will break any QB.

RAC pulled the plug b/c he saw what I saw, Derek's press conference. There is a breaking point for any QB, that was his. He wasn't irate or anything like that, but his head was low and his voice soft, he was done.

Hopefully he takes the rest of this year to do some soul searching and bounces back. I like DA, always have, and he deserves a shot somewhere else.

As far as the contract, like I said, he probably leaves CLE next year unless he is truly broken and then he will just renegotiate.

This is from Terry Pluto's article today:
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2008/11/t...ing_to_myself_1.html

quote:

Q: Isn't money the only reason Anderson has been starting?

A: Here are the numbers: After signing his extension, Anderson has been paid $8 million this season between his signing bonus and salary. His next big boost is March of 2009, when he has a $5 million bonus if still on the roster.

Q: What about Quinn?

A: He was paid $1.1 million for 2007. In March of 2008, he received a $4.2 million bonus, and his salary is another $395,000 for this year. Since 2007, the Browns have about $8.5 million so far tied up in Anderson, and $6.6 million in Quinn. Money is not the real issue.

quote:

Originally posted by FlapJack:
This is from Terry Pluto's article today:
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2008/11/t...ing_to_myself_1.html

quote:

Q: Isn't money the only reason Anderson has been starting?

A: Here are the numbers: After signing his extension, Anderson has been paid $8 million this season between his signing bonus and salary. His next big boost is March of 2009, when he has a $5 million bonus if still on the roster.

Q: What about Quinn?

A: He was paid $1.1 million for 2007. In March of 2008, he received a $4.2 million bonus, and his salary is another $395,000 for this year. Since 2007, the Browns have about $8.5 million so far tied up in Anderson, and $6.6 million in Quinn. Money is not the real issue.

ok that clears up that issue

what about salary? does that get paid out at all

I guess what I'm asking here is, if he gets cut or traded before the roster bonus kicks in, what do we have to pay him?

Because if I recall correctly, his contract is frontloaded with bonuses but backloaded with base salary

I also think that DA has what it takes to be a good QB in this league, but the chips were all against him with BQ sitting behind him and the fans shoving that down his throat at every opportunity. Why do you think that Brett Favre is on the Jets now as opposed to playing another year in Green Bay? Fans have a way of making things that aren't that bad seem much much worse. Was DA having problems this season? Obviously, but I don't think that it meant he is a bad QB. One other thing that plays into the equation is that the offense was not geared specifically for his style of play and he was having a hard time adjusting. I think that BQ will have an easier time simply because Chud is trying to run a dink and dunk style offense. Now if he tries to stretch it down the field often I believe we'll see BQ'a weaknessess exposed...I just want to see a winning team and unfortunately the rest of the offense gave up on DA a while ago, so lets hope they get their wishes granted and BQ lights it up...

I think that this opens up trades in the offseason. Just a guess. I cant see both of them on the team for next year.

From Adam Scheftler's Blog at NFL.com:

Was Quinn’s promotion financially motivated?
Posted: November 4th, 2008 | Adam Schefter | Tags: Brady Quinn, Cleveland Browns, Derek Anderson

Cleveland made what it felt was the best decision for it to win now, which is why it is turning to quarterback Brady Quinn. But changing quarterbacks now, after the midway point of the season, could have financial implications.

Quinn needed to play in 55 percent of the Browns offensive snaps this season, and 55 percent again next season, to earn close to $11 million in contract escalators. Now, while Quinn will struggle to play in 55 percent of the plays this season, he will have to play in 70 percent of the Browns plays next season to earn the same near $11 million in escalators.

Most around the league believe this hardly drove the timing of the Browns decision, that it had little or nothing to do with it now. But it is interesting that the move came now, before Cleveland’s ninth game of the season.

But there are more interesting financial decisions awaiting the Browns. Derek Anderson has a $5 million roster bonus due on the 15th day of the league year in 2009 -– sometime in mid March. If the Browns traded Anderson between the end of the season and the 14th day of the league year, they would have to eat $4.6 million against the salary cap next year. But if they don’t trade Anderson, they would be on the hook for a $9 million salary cap charge.

How Quinn plays in the second half of the season could well dictate how the Browns handle their quarterback situation in the off-season.


http://blogs.nfl.com/category/adam-schefter/

If Phil would have had some foresight and saw that this was a controversy waiting to happen, we would not be in this situation.

He should have made his choice after last season and dealt the other quarterback for picks to shore up the holes we still have on the team.

Now we have Anderson on the bench who will have minimal trade value and more than likely we'll only get lower round offer because teams will realize we will have to cut him.

quote:

Originally posted by Flodawg10:
If Phil would have had some foresight and saw that this was a controversy waiting to happen, we would not be in this situation.

He should have made his choice after last season and dealt the other quarterback for picks to shore up the holes we still have on the team.

Now we have Anderson on the bench who will have minimal trade value and more than likely we'll only get lower round offer because teams will realize we will have to cut him.

Hold on a second, you are not factoring in every possibility. My best bet is that Quinn was not ready at the beginning of the year, the only proof I have is the sub-par training camp (at least sub par for a high powered offense and top top draft pick.)

Savage is not a stupid man, he understands the consequences of a Brady Quinn FLOP. They did not think BQ was ready and wanted him to take more time on the bench to make him ready. Their jobs and the future of the franchise was on the line. So they couldn't start BQ Week 1 against the Cowboys and one of the toughest defensive schedules in the league.

Furthermore, Derek Anderson has talent, ability, and did a nice job last year. They probably knew more than most the "darkside" of DA but still had to make a decision. He would either fly or flop but regardless give BQ the time he needed to slide past an ugly schedule and improve. We couldn't trade DA then bring another QB in to start, the fans would freak out. So we made a choice. Keep DA, give him a shot, if it fails switch to Quinn.

It makes no sense to hate on the organization and Phil for not trading DA. This was the best thing for the team and for Quinn. If you really look at it, and believe as I do that BQ was not ready to handle those first 8 games then there are very few options left.

Flodawg, let's be fair to Savage. He signed Anderson to a tradeable contract that was nowhere near the money his agent originally asked for (just under Tony Romo's contract).

We got him signed to see if he could make "it" happen again. The "it" was putting up big yardage and tds while being highly erratic and inconsistant.

The organization paid to see if they had a franchise in DA. For an organization that hasn't had a solid QB for years, I guarantee every GM you ask would tell you the money was well spent.

We're actually in a great position:
If BQ does well, we can:

Attempt to renegotiate with DA (not likely from his side)
Release him with a small cap burn
Trade him to a QB starved team (as his contract is tradeable and reasonable)

If BQ fails, we can:

Renegotiate with DA and allow both QBs to fight it out next year
Give the reigns back to DA next year (with his low-priced starter salary
Trade BQ with his tradeable contract

Either way, Savage has placed us in a pretty good and flexible position with our QBs. Looking around the league at the turmoil some teams hit when they lose a starter (injury or performance), I think Savage has done a pretty great job.

BucksandBrowns...I couldn't agree more. Talking to a couple of Browns fans, everyone is asking for Phil's head. This is not smart because having two good QBs is NOT an easy situation. I like the way Phil handled it to be quite honest.

A lot of teams already want DA, and is an upgrade from their own QBs. We should still be able to get decent draft picks for him. Sorta like the matt schaub scenario no one knew if he was any good but a lotta teams willing to risk it

I would have to agree with Qdogg about DA's trade value. He may not be worth the first overall pick but very few players are. When Atlanta traded for Schuab he had a total of 6 touchdowns and 6 interceptions with completion percentages of 47,51, and 67%. These are not awesome numbers but were enough to get a 2nd rounder out of the Texans. I am sure the Chiefs, Vikings, 49ers, and maybe the Titans (if Vince doesn't work)might look to upgrade their QB positions for a 2nd rounder.

I'm definitely not asking for Savage's head on this one. I think over all he's done a good job. My problem is that this was a controversy that was almost bound to happen and one that could potentially derail the season; therefore a decision should have been made on who they thought was the future and they should have maximized their assets by trading the other quarterback.

Quinn might have looked bad in the preseason, but I don't think he could've started off any worse than DA. If you look over DAs college career the quarterback you see now is the quarterback he was. Inconsistent and prone to bad decisions and he didn't show much improvement over his time in college.

In this instance I think Savage should have been more decisive. I do believe we could have got more for DA last year than we will be able to get this year. Right now I don't see where teams would be lining up to deal for DA after he's been benched from being the starter. Hopefully, I'm wrong and we can still get a good value for him.

quote:

Originally posted by CJD:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Flodawg10:


Savage is not a stupid man, he understands the consequences of a Brady Quinn FLOP. They did not think BQ was ready and wanted him to take more time on the bench to make him ready.

So you are saying Brady needed a season and a half to be ready when Flacco and Matt Ryan just took over and have been successful??

so Brady is NOT ready??

whats with this 1 year 2 year?? sitting on the bench?

DA is now the football equivalent of Travis Hafner or Jhonny Peralta. Thanks Phil.

quote:

Originally posted by rot10dawg:

quote:

Originally posted by CJD:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Flodawg10:


Savage is not a stupid man, he understands the consequences of a Brady Quinn FLOP. They did not think BQ was ready and wanted him to take more time on the bench to make him ready.

So you are saying Brady needed a season and a half to be ready when Flacco and Matt Ryan just took over and have been successful??

so Brady is NOT ready??

whats with this 1 year 2 year?? sitting on the bench?

When have all rookie QBS have been successful besides Flacco and Ryan?

There's a reason why they give the rookie QB 1-2 years to start. Look at Rodgers. I know he was starting behind Favre. But that's the point. Rookie QBs need nuturing like how a father teaches a child potty training.

quote:

Originally posted by Thebrownpound:

quote:

Originally posted by rot10dawg:

quote:

Originally posted by CJD:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Flodawg10:


Savage is not a stupid man, he understands the consequences of a Brady Quinn FLOP. They did not think BQ was ready and wanted him to take more time on the bench to make him ready.

So you are saying Brady needed a season and a half to be ready when Flacco and Matt Ryan just took over and have been successful??

so Brady is NOT ready??

whats with this 1 year 2 year?? sitting on the bench?

When have all rookie QBS have been successful besides Flacco and Ryan?

There's a reason why they give the rookie QB 1-2 years to start. Look at Rodgers. I know he was starting behind Favre. But that's the point. Rookie QBs need nuturing like how a father teaches a child potty training.

I know this argument can go on and on, but the reality is, I believe that you learn MORE from playing experience
than from holding a clipboard
OK yes not many rookie QB's are successful their first season,
but, many take their lumps that first year thru INCREDIBLE experience and then go forward from there to become franchise QB's
(Aikman, Elway, Eli, Peyton, Rothlesberger, and I am sure a whole lot more)

I don't know what any of the salary numbers are, but I think Quinn will have some incentives kick in. I also think this possibility (Quinn Taking over) may be why Savage said numerous times earlier in the season/off-season (when asked about free agent signings) that "although we are not at our CAP we are close to our personal Budget". He may have been factoring in this possibility.

http://brownschat.clevelandbrowns.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4731011/m/662106391