quote:

Originally posted by DAWGSofDEFENSE:
Well Versitale I think Romeo Crennel disagress with you,actually he stated Rogers will be seeing some time at NT & DE, apparently he will play both?

What? Dude, he can't play the entire field. My point is that there are breakdowns all over the place w/our defense.

And you didn't tell me how old you are. Seriously, I am not going to bash you if you are really, really young. In fact, I will probably just let you go on your merry way.

Maybe this will help.

Gap Responsibility

Vers and DAWGs, here is the deal with our line: Rogers and S. Smith will probably split some time, both playing nose and end depending on the down. In passing situations and a lot of running formations, I would expect Rogers to be lined up in the middle. In some running situations, I would expect to see Rogers on the outside. The reason for this is, Tucker is determined to better our run-defense. In this style 3-4, the biggest key to suring up the run-D is to make sure you get strong penetration on the edges to contain the runner and eliminate cutback options. I think Rogers will be used outside because he is just so big he is going to get a good push. He will help against teams like the Steelers when we want to force Parker up the middle.

As for which side Williams will be playing: I think it is up in the air. KW is pretty good at helping to seal the edge on his side of the field. Probably because of his experience as a college DE. Peek hasn't played enough to show me if he can really be a great containment guy. McG is more of an open-field tackler, not a come-off-the-block or containment LB. Because of this, I would expect the guy that plays better run-defense in pre-season and camp to get the job at left end. The other guy will probably play the right with Wimbley to back him up.

Good logic, kid, but I disagree w/some of what you are saying.

Willie is BY FAR the best guy we have at outside containment. He does a great job of engaging the blocker w/his inside shoulder, keeping his outside shoulder free. This enables him to turn the ball carrier inside and then he tries to shed the block and dive at the ankles. If that puke Diam, would post, he could tell you how we broke down some tape of Willie pulling this technique off to perfection.

Peek absolutely sucked at the outside/in technique and while Wimbley improved, he has a long ways to go.

I think the point I am trying to make, which some of you are still missing, is that this defense had many, many holes last year. I find it hard to believe that two great additions will make us a dominating defense.

An analogy perhaps? Let's say you have a house w/eleven windows. Eight of those windows are leaking. You replace two of them w/the excellent windows. That's great, but you still have six windows that are leaking and the inside of your house is still getting wet.

quote:

Originally Posted by Versatile Dawg:
An analogy perhaps? Let's say you have a house w/eleven windows. Eight of those windows are leaking. You replace two of them w/the excellent windows. That's great, but you still have six windows that are leaking and the inside of your house is still getting wet.

Well I think RAC, PS, and Tucker are all pretty smart guys. Let's take your analogy. What would a smart guy do once he had replaced two of the leakiest windows with two the best windows money can buy? He would take the good weatherstripping from the two windows that he replaced, and use those pieces to replace the bad pieces of weatherstripping on two, or three, or four of the remaining leaky windows. Thereby fixing up to five or six of his windows, while only having to pay for two new ones.

LOL man.........good stuff.

I still say the "house" will have some "leaks," and will not be "water tight."

I think your right. But only time will tell how good our team is at repairing windows.

I believe that our defense will be greatly improved..but not due to the addition of one or two players..

I do feel that the 700lbs we added up front will surely change the way the front line operates. This new modification will allow other pieces to preform with more results.

But the constituents that have the biggest impact will be on the sidelines,as well as, in the fluidity of the defense as a whole.

Better play calling . Better coaching . More experience in this system.

I also believe that there is one major difference that effects this team overall.

They believe


Apologize, not for who you are, but for how others perceive you - D.R. Higgins

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The reason for this is, Tucker is determined to better our run-defense. In this style 3-4, the biggest key to suring up the run-D is to make sure you get strong penetration on the edges to contain the runner and eliminate cutback options. I think Rogers will be used outside because he is just so big he is going to get a good push. He will help against teams like the Steelers when we want to force Parker up the middle.

I have to wonder how you know what Tucker is determined to do? What kind of D he want's to run? Or how "hands off" RAC will be this year on the D side? Those are all unknown quantities.
For all we know Tucker prefers the Buddy Ryan 46 D and is running the 3-4 because that's RAC's deal. We know RAC doesn't like pressure D's. How do we know he's not forcing that belief on Tucker? Was Grantham the mind behind last years "No Pressure" defense? Or was it RAC that was determined to give QB's more time in the pocket than any other team in history? Only seeing this team play in the regular season will answer these questions.

I said what I said because since RAC got here he has said in repeated interviews that he doesn't want to micromanage players or gameplans. He wants his coordinators to come up with the gameplans and playbooks that they think will work the best. He wants Chud to run Chud's offense and he wants Tucker to run Tucker's defense. He said in one interview, "If I made all those decisions, we wouldn't have to pay for coordinators now would we?" (or something to that exact effect). He wants the position coaches to be free to teach the techniques and strategies and then just report to him what's going on. He has clearly said, and I am completely inclined to agree, that one man cannot run the whole team because one guy just can't keep tabs on every little thing that 53 different players are doing. He can't work one on one with everyone at once. His goal is to keep them focused and motivated. Something he does very well.

And please don't forget, there is NOBODY in the NFL that understands the 3-4 system better than our head coach. There is NOBODY that understands the importance and the technical aspect of D-line play, and there are very, very few people that might understand LB play better than Romeo.

You can rest assured that our D-line pick-ups were made via Romeo's direct request, a request that played no small part, I'm sure, in Savage's willingness to trade picks to get them. Was it a smart choice? Wait and see. I think all you nay-sayers will be very pleasantly surprised. Romeo also is a brilliant special teams mind. Look at what that got us.

quote:

Originally posted by kidkanga:
And please don't forget, there is NOBODY in the NFL that understands the 3-4 system better than our head coach. There is NOBODY that understands the importance and the technical aspect of D-line play, and there are very, very few people that might understand LB play better than Romeo.

I have to call you on that statement. Not knocking RAC but there are a lot of 3-4 gurus out there. How about Bill Belicheck for starters? And if RAC is SO great at the 3-4 how come every year since he got here or D has got worse? Oh thats right, he doesn't do anything on the D or O side. He just motivates. Well excuse me but if he's such a defensive genius, perhaps he SHOULD work on the defense. It sure NEEDS work. And he can say anything he wants, I don't believe if Tucker came to him and said he wanted to run the 46 D he'd be allowed to.Tucker has never been an NFL DC. You can bet your ass RAC WILL be seriously involved in the D this year.

I'm going to explain to you what happened when Romeo came to Cleveland. He came in to interview for the job and Phil told him very clearly: "I'm considering you for this position because I'm looking for someone that can come in and fix our defense." Phil is, correctly so, a die-hard believer in the philosophy that defense wins championships.

Romeo was quick to reply: "No. If you bring me in here, we need to fix the offense. We need to figure out a QB, an offensive line, a running game, and some valid receiving threats." Romeo understood that no amount of defensive help would win us more games. He knew that strong defenses without an offense have seasons like the Ravens just had. Romeo was very clear that he was planning on having to rebuild the Browns for 3-4 years minimum before he could have them contending.

Well, RAC has made good on the first part of his promise. We have a legitimate offense, with legitimate running and passing attacks, a legitimate offensive coordinator, and a legitimate offensive line. We have a legitimate special teams unit. Now, it is time for Romeo to show if he can finish the job. Give the guy a chance. Try and remember what sort of team Romeo had to work with when he showed up. A crappy team, that had been getting yanked around by a horrible coach. A team that needed all sorts of help and was in financial trouble. What Romeo has done (granted: others deserve much credit as well) has been nothing short of remarkable.

I assure you that my understanding of the behind-the-scenes ongoings of this team (at least to the extent that I have discussed) is quite credible. However, I am not in a position in which I feel comfortable distinguishing my former connection to the organization. However, I do wholeheartedly believe that Romeo knows exactly what he is doing and I certainly believe that Phil is completely justified in his extreme respect for RAC.

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Willie is BY FAR the best guy we have at outside containment. He does a great job of engaging the blocker w/his inside shoulder, keeping his outside shoulder free. This enables him to turn the ball carrier inside and then he tries to shed the block and dive at the ankles. If that puke Diam, would post, he could tell you how we broke down some tape of Willie pulling this technique off to perfection.

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Willie plays the run pretty good, but he struggles in space. Peek was absolutely horrific against the run. He rarely employs the outside/in technique and consequently get sealed inside and the opposing back is off to the races.

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You could see Peek looping to the outside and S. Smith, who was at DE, slant hard inside. Leon Williams was the ILBer on that side and he runs to the B gap, where Smith already is. This left a huge hole in the C gap and the running back was about 12 yds. downfield before we had anyone near him.

That type of stuff is inexcusable. No D-coordinator in the world would call that defense. It is a lack of discipline by Peek, Smith, and Williams. I think the two guys who were most guilty were Smith and Williams. They chose a gap trying to be a hero and got burned.

I sure hope you don't mind me reposting these 3 ccomments you made about the why we were run on so easily. They are spot on comments, and are perfect examples of how the line and OLB followed by the ILB and Safeties should work together, to contain the run.

I understand the why, and really really wished you would expand on these comments. You are by far a better communicator then myself, and from your comments I can clearly see that you saw what I saw last season. Please take your time and explain in as much detail as possible the responsiblity of each player in the 3-4 scheme in containing the run. Why were poor at it, and what needs to change for it to get or be better.

In closing I want to add this comment as well. A lot of the reasons for our failors on defense in the running game, came about as a result of players free lancing.

Upbeat

quote:

Originally posted by kidkanga:

Romeo was quick to reply: "No. If you bring me in here, we need to fix the offense. We need to figure out a QB, an offensive line, a running game, and some valid receiving threats." Romeo understood that no amount of defensive help would win us more games. He knew that strong defenses without an offense have seasons like the Ravens just had. Romeo was very clear that he was planning on having to rebuild the Browns for 3-4 years minimum before he could have them contending.
.

Sorry, but where did you get that idea....

You bring in a Defense so called Guru, to change our O?

All you talk in the first years is about D and the 3-4 change, and how much we should improve on D...

O started clicking when savage replaced the OC. Chud is the reason this team started working, not Romeo...

Original blueprint was based on the D and on the change to a 3-4, it failed miserably and had to be changed. Fortunatly we lucked with Chud, DA, BE, KWII and JT

You bring in a Head coach that chooses QB by coin flip, and takes an incredible amount of time to figure the obvious...

quote:

I sure hope you don't mind me reposting these 3 ccomments you made about the why we were run on so easily.

No, I don't mind and it's nice to see that someone took the time to not only read them, but think things through.

quote:

Please take your time and explain in as much detail as possible the responsiblity of each player in the 3-4 scheme in containing the run. Why were poor at it, and what needs to change for it to get or be better.

I don't think I will make that post on this thread. It would be very long and it would probably deserve it's own thread, much like my "Zone Blocking" thread of last year.

But, I can add a quickie. Diam was intent on watching the linebackers, especially our ILBers and specifically, Davis. It's hard for me to "begin" w/the linebackers. So, I still had my eyes on the offensive and defensive lines for the most part. Diam would spot something w/the linebackers and we would replay it and I would watch it.

However, watching the d-line was cool and painful. I was amazed by how few double teams there were anywhere along our line. And remember, Wimbley or Peek/McGinnest played on the LOS a lot.

Our three down linemen would almost always get steered in the direction of their first step and the back would cut off the butt of the blocker. What was really bad was that on almost all plays, both guards fired out and went directly after our ILBers. All three are horrendous at shedding blocks. And amazingly enough, after about the 5th game, Diam says that DQ is probably the worst of the bunch. I had to agree.

This year, the addition of Rogers and Williams should really help. They should command double teams. It would be nice if either of the Smiths would step up. Robaire made some very good plays, but I think conditioning is a factor w/him. He would make one great effort play and then take off several plays. S. Smith is way overrated. He chooses a gap, similar to Big Money when he was here, and he occasionally makes a great play, [must be why fans think he is good] but mostly is easily ridden out of the play and the RB has a gaping hole.

Our ILBers should be better, because all three can run downhill. However, they will all still need to shed blocks and they all are terrible at it. They often choose the wrong gaps to protect.

Davis has the annoying habit of overrunning the play. For example, if he is to fill the B gap, he runs to the C gap on that side.

DQ tends to run too flat, and he almost invites blockers to get into him. It was amazing how FAR downfield he was blocked at times. LOL

Williams lack of discipline is a killer. His tendency is to charge straight ahead. The problem is that like on the play I showed earlier, he goes to a gap that is already occupied.

S. Jones is the best linebacker on our team. LOL. When his up close to the LOS from his safety position, he really does an excellent job of playing in his gap and making the hit. He is like a rocket. You see a flash and a great play in the middle of the pile and assume it is one of our linebackers, but it almost always is Jones. The problem is that we had to move Jones into a lot of two-deep coverages last year because Pool wasn't covering the field. Jones isn't very good that deep and it also killed our run defense.

Let me see if I can give you one good example of a well executed play. The one defensive lineman on our team who really had good technique was Orpheus Roye. It was a shame he was hurt so much. But anyway, he was at DE, and he hits the blocker at 3/4, meaning he is almost fully engaged, just his outside shoulder is free. He uses his hands to stay into the blocker and rides w/him as the blocker moves left. Kelly was our NT and he got a good push into the C, moving him backward some, and kinda nullifying the RG, who was pulling from the backside. Wimbley took on his guy and actually used the outside/in technique and was really stringing the play out. Both Davis and DQ ran downhill, Davis who was playside, ran through the B gap and DQ, who was backside, ran through the A gap on the opposite side. Bodden closed hard, coming off of Wimbley's shoulder and the back had no where to run, especially w/his pulling guard being late. The end result was some stutter-stepping and Roye, Davis, and DQ were all in on the tackle. I remember Diam going nuts because both of our ILBers were in on a tackle at the line of scrimmage. LOL

You know, when a defense is executed properly, it is a beautiful thing to watch. My season tix are on the 50 and in the upper deck. The view is similar to watching a coaches tape, not that BS, made for TV, camera angle the networks use. You can really see how each guy flows to the ball in sync, but only when it is run properly. Guys are almost shoulder to shoulder in their lanes, but at different distances. Kinda like a line of cars approaching a toll booth. Cars are flowing to the "gaps" w/some ahead of others, but all are in their lanes. All too often, one or more cars decide to switch lanes to get to their destination quicker, which causes confusion as the cars approach their destination. As we all know, when one car/player gets out of his lane, things usually break down for the rest of the drivers/players.

Bottom line... If our defense improves to where we are in the middle of the league overall for defense, and the offense remains the same if not improve, we will be a MUCH stronger team then last year.