quote:

It's nice to have fantasies but until this product hits the field and is actually productive, please folks save the rave reviews, its meaningless.

So we can be UPBEAT but only when you say so...lol j/k Thought it was funny that one monikered as Upbeat would be pooh-poohing a rah rah post.

I happen to agree with the DawgsofDefense - Rogers is so key and to support that with such a good DLman as Corey Williams makes it even better in IMPACT. Stats...well statistically the Lions sucked on D and so did the Browns.

But my eyes told me something different. Lions...can't say as I did not see but that franchise is AMOK and they Sucked despite having Rogers.

What I saw here in Cleveland - yes, a defense that once again was bottom 5 in a lot of defensive statistics. But unlike previous years I saw a lot of successes too. A team with very young starters. Pool first year. Jones 2nd year, EWright rookie, Wimbley 2nd year, DQ 2nd year, Shaun Smith first in the system and as a starter, Bodden first as the starter (started games previously but pressed into service due to injuries). Veterans McG...still good reps but just a memory of what he was. Roye on his last legs literally, Robaire a vet but first year in a 3-4.

All our Impact players were young athletic and in their 1st or 2nd season starting.

What I saw on the field was not the usual Long nauseating drives giving up steady chunks of yardage with each run. Instead I saw a lot of 3 n outs being made as we played field position with teams...a lot of 5 n outs.

Then I would see a break down of about 4-6 plays where the defense looked disorganized and confused and big chunks of real estate coming off. I would see our offense scoring a lot of points for the first time in I don't know when. Forcing opponents to open up their offense...spreading the D and when they ran on the D in the spread got a lot of yardage.

You know who usually are in the top 10 of Defense especially regarding Air Defense Statistically? Go find the team with the absolute worst Offense. You know the ones who find themselves down 2 scores the 2nd half and the opponents main concern is running the clock!

Well our offense scoring a lot definitely put a lot on the table for the Defense. They were inconsitant as any young impact defense can be expected. And they were a 3-4 Defense with just Mediocre on the DL and at NT. Kelly was mediocre and not on our team now and he looked good compared to what we had previously.

Any and Every Coach I heard talk about the 3-4 Defense has expressed the key Integer to the concepts of the Defense. NOSE TACKLE! That same Impact is not expressed into a 4-3 as much as the DL on the whole - but in the 3-4. THE # 1 KEY is the NT.

Rogers talked about by his peers is the single most dominant DLman in the NFL today. Yes, there always has been a * to that statement, "when he wants to be". Well years in a disfunctional organization like the Lions took its toll.

He has a rebirth here and has caught the fire being breathed by the entire TEAM in their goal to win. Do I think if we put a couple of losing seasons together will he become disenchanted and want out of the long term contract to seek a SB contender? Sure I do. But you know what? Thats not who we are. We are that SB contender even if the worst happens this season and we go 8-8 we have a lot of competitive seasons ahead and will continue to get better.

Nose Tackle. In the 4-3 he was asked to make penetration. He always had 2 or more hats on him - did he take plays off? sure but still he had the double team on him. If their D sucked in Detroit what were the other 3 DLmen doing one on one?

In the 3-4 we don't ask our NT to have impact via penetration...although we won't complain if he establishes his ground a yard or two behind the LOS. But Rogers will warrant 2 sometimes 3 hats on him which is the concept of the 3-4. Lets say Rogers takes a play off every now and then. He won't be knocked back 5 yards - he'll maintain his ground on the LOS but the O still has to have 2 guys on him regardless. He just commands that respect and always had!

Since 05 in our 3-4 Defense we have not come close to that from our NT...a victory for us was just not having the NT blown back 5 yards off the ball. Neutralizing the LOS was like the best we could do. We went from mediocre to getting actually the most DOMINATE IMPACT DT in the NFL right now! Well maybe he and Haynesworth are in the same league...everyone else a step down.

Rogers is actually intelligent and seems to be understanding the system and playing within its disciplines. He knows Centers, OGs and the experience of being double teamed - unlike many DTs coming from a 4-3. Rogers has been double teamed all his football life! That is big time knowledge and makes his adjustment easier. He has his own techniques and will learn RACs to counter and be effective with the double teams.

Trickle down effect. Robaire and Corey will be playing 3 technique in between the OTs n OGs. Which OG will be helping the Center with Rogers? I have to say the designed weakside of the running play. It makes an easier read for our ILB it also will put our DE in a one on one mode on that side to help on any cutback situations in runs.

Our LBs for the first time will be given the opportunity to be the Playmakers of the defense. A free run to the ball and make plays closer to the LOS. Teams will be forced to try to get to the corners in their runs and there will be nice lanes for the ILB to shoot in pursuit and the OLB will mostly take on TEs with their interference. Corey and Robaire both have the speed to take care of the C gaps. But with the overall speed of our Defense and the defenses of all NFL teams - it is so hard to run outside without first running inside effectively!

Pass Rush...Penetration and letting loose. Rogers again is unstoppable and we should be rushing 5 alot. 3 DLmen and both OLBs. Rogers is proving in camp he cannot be stopped with one blocker. That leaves 3 OLmen to stop the other 4 Pass rushers. Corey, Shaun, Robaire (2 will be there) Wimbley and Peek all have excellent pass rush skills. One will not even have an OLman on them and a TE or FB must take them on.

Blitz...in the past we have tried to blitz on occasions but they would often get picked up and we would have a No-No situation with one on one coverage. Now with the Pass rush giving blockers more than they can chew (keyed by the attention that MUST be given to Rogers) this opens up designed blitzing lanes from our ILB or even a very effect B Gap blitz by a Safety. The feeding frenzy will build and build and the Offense will just become Chaos.

Yes, this can be what we have in store for us simply by this one addition and the Bonus is Corey Williams addition to the Defense.

Now we have Pool in his 2nd season much more comfortable in his role and can create more with his athleticism now that he doesn't have to think about what he must do.

Jones in his 3rd season also reaching an unbefore seen comfort level - the comfort is also having playing with his backfield one full season as they know each other and clearly he is the leader of them!

EWright is a special CB and entering his 2nd season - he is so far ahead of where he was just one year ago. McDonald is turning out special too.

Wimbley last season was a one man pass rush and rendered ineffective even if he got in on almost every pass rush...without others it was too easy to by pass his rush as the pocket moved. Run Defense he became more disciplined and in year three should become adept to the run D discipline. Robaire our top banana on the DL is now #3 and will get the attention of #3 not our best. Willie McG should be put in a good rotation and keep his legs fresh...also the more 3 n outs we get from the D the more fresh he is for the 4th qtr but in most cases by that time the D will have their ears pinned back Pass Rushing as the opponents are trying to catch up

Has it happened yet and a Guarantee to happen? Of course not. Should we EXPECT Dominance and Greatness from this Defense? No, until it happens its a ????

Should we get excited cause the Defensive presence we desire as a dominating force is possible at hand? Heck Yeah

Hey - Pessimism often disguised by the word (REALITY) - Hey I'm a fan, I'm not a coach, I'm not a player. Its the time for me as a fan to be optimistic and in those terms its the time!!

And unlike other years its not Kool Aid - Its not just Brown and Orange glasses. Its here and its for real!!

As always JMHO

Awesome post eo....Cant find anything to argue about there. I hope what you say WILL happen. I think it will. I am really excited about our new DL and how that will trickle down to the rest of the defense. There is no way we wont be an improved D. If the O can play close to where they were last year this could be a special season.

quote:

Originally posted by eotab:

quote:

It's nice to have fantasies but until this product hits the field and is actually productive, please folks save the rave reviews, its meaningless.

So we can be UPBEAT but only when you say so...lol j/k Thought it was funny that one monikered as Upbeat would be pooh-poohing a rah rah post.

I happen to agree with the DawgsofDefense - Rogers is so key and to support that with such a good DLman as Corey Williams makes it even better in IMPACT. Stats...well statistically the Lions sucked on D and so did the Browns.

But my eyes told me something different. Lions...can't say as I did not see but that franchise is AMOK and they Sucked despite having Rogers.

What I saw here in Cleveland - yes, a defense that once again was bottom 5 in a lot of defensive statistics. But unlike previous years I saw a lot of successes too. A team with very young starters. Pool first year. Jones 2nd year, EWright rookie, Wimbley 2nd year, DQ 2nd year, Shaun Smith first in the system and as a starter, Bodden first as the starter (started games previously but pressed into service due to injuries). Veterans McG...still good reps but just a memory of what he was. Roye on his last legs literally, Robaire a vet but first year in a 3-4.

All our Impact players were young athletic and in their 1st or 2nd season starting.

What I saw on the field was not the usual Long nauseating drives giving up steady chunks of yardage with each run. Instead I saw a lot of 3 n outs being made as we played field position with teams...a lot of 5 n outs.

Then I would see a break down of about 4-6 plays where the defense looked disorganized and confused and big chunks of real estate coming off. I would see our offense scoring a lot of points for the first time in I don't know when. Forcing opponents to open up their offense...spreading the D and when they ran on the D in the spread got a lot of yardage.

You know who usually are in the top 10 of Defense especially regarding Air Defense Statistically? Go find the team with the absolute worst Offense. You know the ones who find themselves down 2 scores the 2nd half and the opponents main concern is running the clock!

Well our offense scoring a lot definitely put a lot on the table for the Defense. They were inconsitant as any young impact defense can be expected. And they were a 3-4 Defense with just Mediocre on the DL and at NT. Kelly was mediocre and not on our team now and he looked good compared to what we had previously.

Any and Every Coach I heard talk about the 3-4 Defense has expressed the key Integer to the concepts of the Defense. NOSE TACKLE! That same Impact is not expressed into a 4-3 as much as the DL on the whole - but in the 3-4. THE # 1 KEY is the NT.

Rogers talked about by his peers is the single most dominant DLman in the NFL today. Yes, there always has been a * to that statement, "when he wants to be". Well years in a disfunctional organization like the Lions took its toll.

He has a rebirth here and has caught the fire being breathed by the entire TEAM in their goal to win. Do I think if we put a couple of losing seasons together will he become disenchanted and want out of the long term contract to seek a SB contender? Sure I do. But you know what? Thats not who we are. We are that SB contender even if the worst happens this season and we go 8-8 we have a lot of competitive seasons ahead and will continue to get better.

Nose Tackle. In the 4-3 he was asked to make penetration. He always had 2 or more hats on him - did he take plays off? sure but still he had the double team on him. If their D sucked in Detroit what were the other 3 DLmen doing one on one?

In the 3-4 we don't ask our NT to have impact via penetration...although we won't complain if he establishes his ground a yard or two behind the LOS. But Rogers will warrant 2 sometimes 3 hats on him which is the concept of the 3-4. Lets say Rogers takes a play off every now and then. He won't be knocked back 5 yards - he'll maintain his ground on the LOS but the O still has to have 2 guys on him regardless. He just commands that respect and always had!

Since 05 in our 3-4 Defense we have not come close to that from our NT...a victory for us was just not having the NT blown back 5 yards off the ball. Neutralizing the LOS was like the best we could do. We went from mediocre to getting actually the most DOMINATE IMPACT DT in the NFL right now! Well maybe he and Haynesworth are in the same league...everyone else a step down.

Rogers is actually intelligent and seems to be understanding the system and playing within its disciplines. He knows Centers, OGs and the experience of being double teamed - unlike many DTs coming from a 4-3. Rogers has been double teamed all his football life! That is big time knowledge and makes his adjustment easier. He has his own techniques and will learn RACs to counter and be effective with the double teams.

Trickle down effect. Robaire and Corey will be playing 3 technique in between the OTs n OGs. Which OG will be helping the Center with Rogers? I have to say the designed weakside of the running play. It makes an easier read for our ILB it also will put our DE in a one on one mode on that side to help on any cutback situations in runs.

Our LBs for the first time will be given the opportunity to be the Playmakers of the defense. A free run to the ball and make plays closer to the LOS. Teams will be forced to try to get to the corners in their runs and there will be nice lanes for the ILB to shoot in pursuit and the OLB will mostly take on TEs with their interference. Corey and Robaire both have the speed to take care of the C gaps. But with the overall speed of our Defense and the defenses of all NFL teams - it is so hard to run outside without first running inside effectively!

Pass Rush...Penetration and letting loose. Rogers again is unstoppable and we should be rushing 5 alot. 3 DLmen and both OLBs. Rogers is proving in camp he cannot be stopped with one blocker. That leaves 3 OLmen to stop the other 4 Pass rushers. Corey, Shaun, Robaire (2 will be there) Wimbley and Peek all have excellent pass rush skills. One will not even have an OLman on them and a TE or FB must take them on.

Blitz...in the past we have tried to blitz on occasions but they would often get picked up and we would have a No-No situation with one on one coverage. Now with the Pass rush giving blockers more than they can chew (keyed by the attention that MUST be given to Rogers) this opens up designed blitzing lanes from our ILB or even a very effect B Gap blitz by a Safety. The feeding frenzy will build and build and the Offense will just become Chaos.

Yes, this can be what we have in store for us simply by this one addition and the Bonus is Corey Williams addition to the Defense.

Now we have Pool in his 2nd season much more comfortable in his role and can create more with his athleticism now that he doesn't have to think about what he must do.

Jones in his 3rd season also reaching an unbefore seen comfort level - the comfort is also having playing with his backfield one full season as they know each other and clearly he is the leader of them!

EWright is a special CB and entering his 2nd season - he is so far ahead of where he was just one year ago. McDonald is turning out special too.

Wimbley last season was a one man pass rush and rendered ineffective even if he got in on almost every pass rush...without others it was too easy to by pass his rush as the pocket moved. Run Defense he became more disciplined and in year three should become adept to the run D discipline. Robaire our top banana on the DL is now #3 and will get the attention of #3 not our best. Willie McG should be put in a good rotation and keep his legs fresh...also the more 3 n outs we get from the D the more fresh he is for the 4th qtr but in most cases by that time the D will have their ears pinned back Pass Rushing as the opponents are trying to catch up

Has it happened yet and a Guarantee to happen? Of course not. Should we EXPECT Dominance and Greatness from this Defense? No, until it happens its a ????

Should we get excited cause the Defensive presence we desire as a dominating force is possible at hand? Heck Yeah

Hey - Pessimism often disguised by the word (REALITY) - Hey I'm a fan, I'm not a coach, I'm not a player. Its the time for me as a fan to be optimistic and in those terms its the time!!

And unlike other years its not Kool Aid - Its not just Brown and Orange glasses. Its here and its for real!!

As always JMHO

I love the post, but I will only become a believer when I see us getting about 4 sacks a game. I can't remember when we had a legitimate pass rush.

O.k. It was Walter Johnson and Jerry Sherk.

TY Eco nice to have more optimism
And yes Rogers, and Williams will make our D line, what Thomas and Eric Steinback, and co. made our O LIne last yr

I've been meaning to post my thoughts in this thread about our "revamped" defense but eotab has a really nice post above, which stated most of my thoughts in more detail than I would have.

Don't get me ... our defense was a total freakin trainwreck last year. It absolutely made me sick to watch most times. I was not giving those guys one iota of an excuse at the time ... not one inch.

After reflecting on the season, there probably were a few reasons for the poor peformance. One, injuries and age ... basically lost both big Ted and Roye for the season. Our defensive line was a mess ... some guys were playing that had no business being out there. Also, saw injuries to OLB and CB that hurt. But injuries happen every year ... we just got hit a little harder, and we weren't as deep as we are now.

Second, it APPEARS we had a schemer who became a malcontent running the defense. I don't want to dwell on this too much ... because this story was substantiated with way too many unsubstantiated rumors. However, our DC DID lose his job ... and there is the possibility that he could have been directly undermining RAC. Needless to say, the players probably didn't have DC that was leader they could rally behind.

The additions on the defensive lines should pay huge dividend as there are ripple down effects throughout the rest of the defense. The battle for the line of scrimmage should be much improved on defense, just as it was on offense. I still do have concerns about Rogers staying strong through a full 16+ games schedule. We'll see.

My other concern is how quickly Tucker can settle into the job, plus losing his focused efforts with our young secondary. At the end of the day I look to Romeo ... this is effectively HIS defense, and we signed him up based on his work as a defensive general.

With the improvements we've made, I would expect to see it manifested in positive results on the field.

Rogers will The Ol'e change of scenery thingy He loves it here and the staff loves him ALREADY !!! that speaks volumes.

quote:

Originally posted by kidkanga:
I just read the Bell has been clinically diagnosed with a couple of learning disabilities and has a great deal of trouble learning and remembering information. I hadn't realized this. I also read that he has trouble with self-discipline because of his mental conditions (i.e. he doesn't have the self-motivation to work out on his own or hold to a diet). I don't know how severe any of his mental comprehension problems are, but I read that coaches had trouble getting him to do or understand things and it was via his brother (a UNLV teammate) that he was able to be motivated to practice and study. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to slander the guy because I don't know much about him at all, but I'm wondering if he is going to be able to pick up the 3-4 system and stay motivated and on-track. He really did look very large for a LB. And big in a bad way. He really looked like he had put on way too much weight around the middle. I thought he was a defensive lineman when I first saw him. I'm wondering if he isn't having trouble controlling his dieting and his willingness to adhere to a work out regiment.

Where did you read this? How about a link?

I hope this is BS. The last hing we need is another Clifford Charlton.

layer-profile-tab-analysis" TARGET=_blank>Beau Bell Profile

Click the Analysis tab and read away. There are several other sources I encountered that said similar things.

quote:

Originally posted by kidkanga:
layer-profile-tab-analysis" TARGET=_blank>Beau Bell Profile

Click the Analysis tab and read away. There are several other sources I encountered that said similar things.

That doesn't really go into too much detail, and even reverses the line of thinking by saying he has 'good football intelligence'. However, that's still a tad disturbing. All I have to say is, Phil had to have drafted him for a reason, and the kind of rationale and investigation PS uses I'm sure he would have picked up on this. ESPECIALLY, since he was our first draft pick of 08'.

quote:

Originally Posted by AllHeart:
That doesn't really go into too much detail, and even reverses the line of thinking by saying he has 'good football intelligence'.

When you read those sort of public scouting reports, you have to be able to read between the lines. The guys that write and publish them can get in trouble if they aren't very careful on how they word them. Something like someone's "football intelligence" is very subjective. They have to choose how they word it very carefully. The fact that it is listed in the negatives section and as one of the first items, you should suspect that scouts think it is a point of concern.

And I'm not saying that I don't think Bell can turn into a great NFL player. I'm just saying it might be a little more difficult for him in certain ways and it may take longer. We, as fans, may have to be patient with him.

quote:

Originally posted by eotab:

quote:

It's nice to have fantasies but until this product hits the field and is actually productive, please folks save the rave reviews, its meaningless.

...........Zzzzzz huh what? I fell asleep after the first chapter.

"Those who can do, are those who do not brag" Dale Earnhart Sr.

EW knows BB from UNLV. To think PS drafted a player that could not play, due to mental problems, would put PS in the corral of nincompoops..You should be able to find something more plausable to worry about.

If hes so "dumb" wht does he have a college degree?

I mean why does he have a degree? in other words I find the whole idea rediculous.
Beau got an A+ in Snot knocking 101

I'm not calling the guy dumb. I made that very clear. However, he was majoring in "university studies." which is a "liberal arts" degree that was basically invented for athletes to major in without having to focus on any real academic work.

I'm also not arguing that Bell didn't demonstrate good athletic talent in college. The guy has the athletic ability. The question now becomes: how long will it take to for Bell to learn the system?

Bell was a guy that looked pretty good in college purely because he had the athletic talent. In the pros, you have to have the athletic ability AND the technique and understanding of the defensive scheme. In the NFL, you aren't going to find linemen and FBs you have just run over the way you can in college. To get past them, you have to know the techniques to get off of blocks. You have to know how to read plays before and at the snap. You need to be able to diagnose things faster. Bell didn't display great reading ability. He didn't get off his blocks if he got fully engaged. He overran plays. He often made the wrong first move at the snap. In college, you can be a good player even if you make some of these mistakes. In the NFL, you can't.

quote:

Zzzzzz huh what? I fell asleep after the first chapter.

Thanks for your contributions...

KidKanga - that report was out a long time ago, I remember it surfacing when we first started talking about Beau Bell as a possible draft pick.

The thing about his learning disabilities is that it seems to be held mainly to the classroom and not Football Intelligence. And yet the kid went to school for 4 years. Not sure if he graduated but for some reason I think I read he did this year. Not bad for a kid with learning disabilities.

But anyways I read nothing but about how well he's grasping our system so the kid ain't a retard. In any case its seems that him moving along fast to become a starter really isn't that necessary as AD seems to have brought an extra step in his Contract Season. We have looked at UNLV for two years solid Savage has gotten to know Bell backwards and forwards in those two years. I'm confident in his decision to invest into Beau...and am looking forward to his play!

JMHO