I have to agree with some others on the board, our defense is not better. In fact, I might be convinced we're worse. We still give up 5 yards a carry, we still don't pressure quarterbacks. Only difference is, we don't have our best corner in Leigh Bodden and second best corner (Daven Holly) is gone for the season. Rogers talks a big game but I didn't see Jack from him against the Jets. Williams is out of shape and doesn't seem to play with any fire.

This teams attitude reminds me of the Bengals three years ago. They won 11 games and they made a freakin music video. They've been reeling ever since. We can't afford to be satisfied with a 10 win, no playoff season. It's actually ridiculous that our players have a swagger when they haven't done anything yet. Let's beat Dallas and Pittsburgh and I'll start to be convinced that we're for real. Until then, they need to work hard everyday to improve.

Can't see our defense being very good. Our LB's are weak. None of them can do a good job agaist the run. We lack speed and quickness to get job done

I agree with Ziggy. Our linebackers never get pressure, either against the pass or run. Wimbley seems to get blocked easily by one guy every time. He's all speed, average power. We need a beast at outside linebacker.

quote:

Originally posted by brownssfan:
I agree with Ziggy. Our linebackers never get pressure, either against the pass or run. Wimbley seems to get blocked easily by one guy every time. He's all speed, average power. We need a beast at outside linebacker.

Well, in our scheme, we need another Wimbley.

The verdict is yet to be decided on the LB's, of course you can always get better, but I am curious to see just how good they can be with Rogers in the game. Time will tell.

I will say this, when Rogers plays well, everyone will play well, when he plays poorly, EVERYone will play poorly. The DT is the end all be all football god in our scheme and he has to produce so that the others can. He has to DEMAND Double teams. If he does as well as he can, then average LB's and DB's will look great. And Visa versa.

I'm not real worried about the Giants game btw, it was a fluke, and a good solid wake up call for these guys. This is the NFL, you can't skate through it 16-0, you gotta fight like an animal every sunday and I think this is a solid reminder for them.

quote:

Originally posted by Ziggy:
Can't see our defense being very good. Our LB's are weak. None of them can do a good job agaist the run. We lack speed and quickness to get job done

As I just said, the verdict is still out, we have to give them time. I would like another solid OLB, but that is the only position I see as truly Weak of the LB's.

quote:

Originally posted by mbross:
I have to agree with some others on the board, our defense is not better. In fact, I might be convinced we're worse. We still give up 5 yards a carry, we still don't pressure quarterbacks. Only difference is, we don't have our best corner in Leigh Bodden and second best corner (Daven Holly) is gone for the season. Rogers talks a big game but I didn't see Jack from him against the Jets. Williams is out of shape and doesn't seem to play with any fire.

This teams attitude reminds me of the Bengals three years ago. They won 11 games and they made a freakin music video. They've been reeling ever since. We can't afford to be satisfied with a 10 win, no playoff season. It's actually ridiculous that our players have a swagger when they haven't done anything yet. Let's beat Dallas and Pittsburgh and I'll start to be convinced that we're for real. Until then, they need to work hard everyday to improve.

I would say everyone should work hard and improve everyday, regardless of the President to the Garbage man. But in all fairness, we have only seen Rogers play 1/2 of a quarter and even then, I thought he did a good job. If you expect him to sack the QB every play, then you don't understand the position or the scheme. Not trying to offend you, but during the Jets Game Rodgers held his ground and sucked up a few double teams. We actually did fairly well when he was in.

The problem with our defense is that if Rogers goes down, well, we are going to bve worse than last year, Corey Williams or not.

And Williams will not sack the QB every play either btw, but I'd look for him to start throwing some more pressure as the season goes on.

I think you all need to keep in mind that this is the pre-season. We hardly ever blitz. It's a general understanding that the Giants broke. Why do teams rarely blitz? 2 reasons. 1) Injuries, and 2) keeping the exotic packages under wraps. So don;t freak out too much over last Mon. Our coaches didn;t gameplan for blitzes like that, and our players weren't ready for it. They should have been, but it is understandable. And the same goes for our D, we have not blitzed very much on first string and when we start, you will see more of the flashy plays from all of them.

So no worries

I could be wrong but I dont think williams and rodgers have played at the same time yet . I am personally hoping the combination will dominate which will help the rest of the D

"...will dominate"...whoa there big fellow.

We need to get to the middle of the pack first, on the defensive side, say...inside the top 20 this year on defense. We still have a glaring weakness in the secondary, even if we do do a much better job against the run this year. If we can finish around 15 or so on D this year then I say we've done one heck of a job and will have another double-digit win total, even with our killer schedule. Shoot...we would have been playing for the AFC at the end of last year if our D would have been among the league's best 20.

quote:

Williams is out of shape and doesn't seem to play with any fire.

Out of shape? Did you see him try and run down Manning?

listen, I'm convinced the Browns were both not READY AND THEY DIDN'T TRY 100%. Yes it was embarrasing, and angering, but I think they were just trying to skate by this pre-season over hyped game because they seriously didn't want to show the Giants (whom they play in 2 months) any of their game plan. This was a joke, and I admit it wasn't pretty and I was ticked off but are you really going to give your body and your whole season for a preseason game. I think the Giants broke the unspoken rule to Blitz and give everything they have to dominate the game because they were playing in front of their home fans and they knew they wanted to gain some confidence and momentum coming into the season. The browns don't care it seems to me. just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Jiggalo:
listen, I'm convinced the Browns were both not READY AND THEY DIDN'T TRY 100%. Yes it was embarrasing, and angering, but I think they were just trying to skate by this pre-season over hyped game because they seriously didn't want to show the Giants (whom they play in 2 months) any of their game plan. This was a joke, and I admit it wasn't pretty and I was ticked off but are you really going to give your body and your whole season for a preseason game. I think the Giants broke the unspoken rule to Blitz and give everything they have to dominate the game because they were playing in front of their home fans and they knew they wanted to gain some confidence and momentum coming into the season. The browns don't care it seems to me. just my opinion.

I totally agree here to a certain extent. Why did our guys stay in so long then? After we had our first 3 and out we should have went to the Brady Bunch and forced the hand of the GIants to take out the pass rush... And if not at least our backups get to see some heat. Id love to think that you are correct but I just dont see it realistically. Going back if you watch the plays they all were the same... nothing special even when Brady came in.

Angered at the performance but it is in the past and there are only 2 more meaningless games.

quote:

I still dont think alot of folks here understsnd the significance of the Shaun Rogers signing ( Corey Williams too )Beau Bell will also give us something we have lacked a BIG TIME hitter in the middle.
Shaun is a game changing IMPACT D Lineman.
The fallout from this is that our linebackers will be wrecking havok on the oppositions (K W is a sack machine), )Shaun being in there will unleash him because they will have thier hands full trying to keep SR out of the backfield.
CB's and S will have an easier time of it as a result, as well.
Also the Corners, and safties wont have to cover

ROFLMAO. Care to revise those remarks?

quote:

If you expect him to sack the QB every play, then you don't understand the position or the scheme. Not trying to offend you, but during the Jets Game Rodgers held his ground and sucked up a few double teams. We actually did fairly well when he was in.

No offense taken. I just have to disagree. During the Jets game we didn't play that good on defense when Rogers was in. Yeah, we stopped em on fourth down. If we hadn't, they would've scored a touchdown with Clemens. If Favre would've played they would've scored for sure. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect a sack every pass play, but I expect them to make sure the quarterback knows they are there and it could be a sack on any play. Right now that is not the case. Manning had so much time to throw he could've called a new play in the middle of the one he was in.

It is preseason, and the verdict is still out. Rogers has been in the league long enough to know that preseason is preseason. I just wanna see him dominate now! I might need to learn some patience, that's all.

Wimbley needs to step up. I've made comments in other threads that he has decent speed, decent power- just not enough of one of the other too be a force.

There's a lot of this defense that needs to be fixed. Last year, the Dline, Linebacking core, and the secondary were all weakness. This year, only the secondary and linebackers are weaknesses. We're still a good two offseasons away from having a "dominate defense."

quote:

CJD

I kinda hate getting on you because you write well. You are well-spoken and seem like a good guy.

With that said, I think you are wrong on several things. I'll comment on a few of them.

--First of all, Rogers did not suck up double teams against the Jets. Mangold handled him one-on-one on almost every play.

--Rogers was lazy in Detroit. People are trying to change what really happened, but the fact is that he got out of shape, took many plays off, wore out, and was a negative influence in the locker room. He's already missed a game here and looked like a thug on the sideline. He has great ability, but ability doesn't mean squat if you don't apply it.

--We do have worries. Our secondary is poor. Wright plays with a huge cushion and gets burned when he does press. Both our safeties are really poor at defending the deep pass. Jones is good against the run; defending the flat; and even some of the intermediate routes, but you can't ask the guy to run in space. Pool just doesn't have the instincts or knowledge to cover much if anything.

--We were 30th in defense last year, and we benefited from a couple of bad-weather games at the end of the season.

--Our linebackers are not very instinctive and have a real hard time shedding blocks.

DA and RAC will get the brunt of the criticism this year, but it will be our defense that lets us down.........once again.

quote:

DA and RAC will get the brunt of the criticism this year, but it will be our defense that lets us down.........once again.

RAC is supposed to be a defensive genius. If our D sucks who SHOULD we blame? Talent is one thing, but scheme is all on him. If we have another season of "No Pressure" defense I'll become and alky.

I have been working my way towards putting up a defensive post along the lines of what I have seen to this point, and what I think will happen as we move into the season. There are a couple of issues that I want to point out before continuing though.

1st If I where RAC I would never ever tip my hand as to what my real plans are for this defense in the pre-season. Like the offense last season going in no other team had a good handle on what this offense would do. That’s a big advantage.

Now I have seen posts saying that we should show everyone what we are about and work on our actual defense. Your nuts if you actually believe that nonsense. Look if we can keep this defense under wraps so to speak until the Dallas game, it will if for only that one game give us an advantage, and advantage that may very well turn the game in our favor. Still think it’s a good idea to dump your bucket in the pre-season?

Think about this too. Is it better to get off to a good start in season, or to win meaningless pre-season games? Not really much of a choice to me anyway!

The giants could run their defense full throttle because it’s the same defense with the same players for the most part. Nothing to really keep under wraps. Besides they won the SB running their defense. Why not be in your face about it, you have proven you’re the best, now it’s up to other teams to try to catch you. Not to mention their players are comfortable and knowledgeable in their defense. So relax the sky isn’t falling.

Vers you are correct about Rogers. He was handled in the Jets game by Mangold. I was pretty disappointed then I realized that it seemed as though Rogers was really working on his technique, and trying not to get out of position. My thought was then that as he becomes more comfortable and familiar with the 3-4 he should be able to play faster. To much thinking I think! Does that make sense?

On the flip side though Williams was regularly doubled in the Giants game, and was able to get a pretty good push as well. I didn’t watch him on every single play, but when I did I noticed him.

I have always believed that good players show up no matter how poor the talent around them is. That said certain players on the Browns defense have shown up over the course of the past few season. On the other hand some players on the Browns current roster have never shown up. If they have point them, out I don’t re-call. When I say show up I mean make a big play.

The haves.

KW, SJ, EW, BM

The have nots

BP, AD, BQ
Sometimes Do’s (lack consistency)
SS, RS, AP

We also have 2 new players on defense they should help the inconsistent guys, and the never if hardly ever show up guys need to do a 180 from here or will be looking for new guys to wear their uniforms come next season.

I repeat though good players even on bad teams do show up. Think about how many guys that remain on this team that have shown up over the past few years, and the fog begins to clear IMO as to how good this defense can be. We do have some guys that should become much better with the additions to the line. The guys that I have major concerns about are the ones that have never shown up in the past, and hey we still have them.

The most intriguing thing about this defense to this point is what combo’s will Tucker and RAC put together?

For instance I have heard we will use a 4 man front from time to time. Will the Browns move Rogers and Williams around to confuse and create mismatches for the O Lines will face? Will we run more ILB blitz’s or run blitz’s from the middle. I actually think this defense should be capable of creating big plays by carefully picking their spots. Will see once the season starts, but until then the flavor of the day is vanilla. I confess to wanting to see the real deal too, but until the season starts I wouldn’t expect much. Sorry !!!

Apologies to the board for being long winded…LOL

JMHO

This is still the preseason.
WE HAVE NOT SEEN OUR STARTING DFENSE YET!
Hello?

the problem is is that our LB's are going to be havily relied upon. Our new DT's are not going to get to the QB. They are no where near the Giants front line. Having said that, I think this opens the door for Wimbley to have a HUGE year coming off the outside. I like our chances against the run but anything against a pass happy team is gonna be tough to stop