Thread to discuss your thoughts on Cleveland Indians offseason strategy and activities. What do you think they should do? What do you think of what they have done?

Here are my priorities:

1) Starting pitching (2 legit starters)
2) Closer
3) Other bullpen (at least on other guy)
4) 2B with leadoff capability or
3B with power
5) Outfield bat

Bargaining chips: (Depending on the deal, guys we could part with) Shoppach, Sowers, Laffey, Peralta, Barfield, Garko, Betancourt, Gutierrez, Dellucci, farm system … including Laporta & other new guys)

Personally, I think we have to make a STRONG play in the Jake Peavy sweepstakes. The guy is locked into a contract … we just have to make the right deal. I’m willing to part with Shoppach, Laporta, Peralta, and other young guns to get this thing to happen.

Can Peralta move to third? Can Barfield step up and own 2B? Pluto made an interesting suggestion at trying to get the O’s to part with Brian Roberts.

one of the biggest questions is weather hafner will produce. we need 2 starters, a power hitting outfielder and a productive 3rd baseman. another bullpen arm would be nice because we don't know which betancourt we will get next year.

ehhh, ill see you guys in march

quote:

Originally posted by injuns:
one of the biggest questions is weather hafner will produce. we need 2 starters, a power hitting outfielder and a productive 3rd baseman. another bullpen arm would be nice because we don't know which betancourt we will get next year.

Agree with everything you said here.

Pitching: Can we expect Jake back next year? I never thought he was terribly consistent to begin with. Can Carmona return to his 07 form and be the next 20 game winner for this team? What will Cliff Lee look like next year? I think he pitched very well this year because demoting him to AAA lit a fire under him, made him want to prove something. Well, what will be left for him to prove next year? What about the bullpen? Can Betancourt return to 07 form? Are you sold on Jensen Lewis as the closer? The only guy in our bullpen that I have faith in is Perez.

Hitting: As bad as the bullpen was last year, I think the Indians dropped out of contention because they couldn't score any runs. Certainly Hafner and Martinez not being healthy played a significant part in that, but the other guys weren't hitting either. Do you think Shin Soo Choo is a legit corner outfielder? Can Hafner ever return to this 05-06 level? I have to admit, I'm really worried about this guy. I was 100% in favor of signing him to the long term deal, but now I seriously wonder if that was a mistake. What should they do with Ryan Garko? He started to heat up late in the year, after all the pressure was off, but can he hit consistently for an entire year? Will LaPorta be ready to step in next year, or is he still a year or more away from the big leagues? What do we do about 3rd base? Andy Marte might be the biggest flame out in a long time, but I think the Indians are desperately afraid that he will go to another team and be a star. To be fair to Marte, I don't think the Indians really gave him a shot this year. All that platooning garbage with Casey Blake didn't help him. The question is, did this guy show enough in the minors to make the Indians believe he can be a 3rd baseman in the bigs?

The Indians have way more question marks than they do solid players, in my opinion. I hate to say it, but I believe that so many guys had career years and over-achieved in 07. I have a feeling that the Indians are going to give us the same old song and dance in the offseason: We liked how this team played down the stretch. They didn't tank and they played some good baseball. We don't think significant roster moves are in order." Translation: don't get your hopes up about signing any free agents or making any trades. If we do sign free agents, they will be of the same ilk as Delucci and Borowski; average to slightly below average journeyman ball players who are signed with the belief that they will over-achieve during their time in Cleveland.

I think Kelly Shoppach made a very strong case for a little more time behind the plate. Having 2 good catchers is very nice to have. Plus, if Travis is still struggeling, we can move Victor to first, and then offer up Travis. But, in my mind, the 3 biggest needs are 1 more solid starter, a closer and an strong 3rd baseman. I'm fine with our outfield if it includes Grady, Choo and Francisco. Our bullpen wasn't that bad in the 2nd half, and you can get relievers easily. I think Peralta is expendable, along with Barfield, Grako, Guteirrez, Laffy and Sowers. We have some good young arms in our system. No need spending tons of money on a superstar pitcher. We were pretty good in the 2nd half of the season without CC and Jake.

And I would love to have Roberts!!!

I say we play shoppach at catcher. victor will play first/ backup catcher. cabrerra to ss, peralta to third. second is either barfield or a trade. grady cf, choo and fransisco can platoon in right or left. FA or trade power hitter in corner out field( pat burrell).

get fransico rodriguez , second choice eric gagne, third chioce kerry wood(could even be a setup man)( I know he has an injury history. but limiting his pitch count dramticaly should keep him healthier)

I think we need a 3rd baseman,some bullpen help both relievers and a closer,a starting pitcher and we need to figure out if Barfield is the answer or do we go after a 2nd basemen also. I wish the Tribe could get someone like a Garret Adkins or Brian Roberts and a closer like Brian Fuentes or Hudson Street. Maybe add a starter. Wish we would just go after Ramirez to add our big bat to the line up or even someone like a lights out closer like K-Rod but i think thats unrealistic for us at least.

wish list: Manny Ramirez(think he will resign w/ L.A)CC Sabathia(if not us, i hope NL)or K-ROD(lights out in the 9th)

quote:

Originally posted by T bone:


get fransico rodriguez , second choice eric gagne, third chioce kerry wood(could even be a setup man)( I know he has an injury history. but limiting his pitch count dramticaly should keep him healthier)

Not a chance in hell we get K-Rod.

Good possibility we can get Casey Blake back at a reasonable price!

ok, so its not march, but Josh Barfield?

we let this kid go and he came back? I can only expect big things

Ok, so everybody pretty much can see exactly what this team needs help with. Starting Pitching Depth, Bullpen, and a couple bats. However, why does it seem that everyone wants to trade Shoppach? We have many pieces with which to bargain, but I believe Shoppach is more valuable to our team than trading him away. I'd make Shoppach the everyday catcher and move Victor to 1st. Shoppach is better defensively than Martinez and gets rid of the ball MUCH quicker, allowing to throw out more runners. This takes unnecessary wear and tear off Victor. It also allows for roster flexibility. We would not need to carry a backup catcher due to the fact that we'd have Shoppach and Martinez already on the roster. That means we could use the roster spot on another infielder or outfielder. For example, it could allow us to keep Gutierrez on the roster to utilize his speed & defense in key situations.

However, I do agree that they need to find another solid starting pitcher. This is probably going to have to come via the trade route. I'd like to see us sign a couple of solid middle relievers. One of which has closing experience. I'd keep Jensen Lewis in the closer's role for now. I think he's proven he can handle it. I think at minimum, he's earned the chance to compete for it in spring training..if not having atleast a leg up. Even with all the problems on offense, I don't think people realize how many games the bullpen cost us this year. If they cost us just 7 less, we're right at the top of the division this year..as crazy as that sounds. Hell, I think Betancourt cost us 7 games by himself. We also need to pursue a true leadoff hitter. I love Grady, but he's not a leadoff hitter. Leadoff hitters don't hit .268. He needs to be moved to the 3-hole. He hit 33 HR's last year and 90 RBI's. You put him in the 3-hole and those 90 RBI's become closer to 120 RBI's. Anybody wanna tell me we couldn't use 30 extra runs produced out of Grady Sizemore? Go find a true leadoff hitter!

quote:

Originally posted by MVPontbriand:
Go find a true leadoff hitter!

Kenny?

IMHO,the tribe has a some decisions to make,and some dead weight too.

To make a long story short,here's what my lineups would be.

catcher:Shoppach/Martinez
1:Martinez/Laporta
2:Barfield/Carroll
3:FA,my pick would be G Adkins/Prospect,probably Hodges/Peralta
SS:Cabrera
DH:Hafner,that is if he doesn't mysteriously lose all the strength on his shoulder again
CF:Grady
LF:Francisco
RF:Choo/LaPorta

Rotation (order depending on which FA's we get)
1.Lee
2.Carmona
3.S Lewis. I think he earned a shot in the rotation,provided he doesn't forget how to pitch in the offseason.
4.FA/Laffey
5.FA/Prospect
Westbrook will take over #3 once he's healthy after the break.Hopefully we can get a good veteran FA or 2 so we don't have to rely on so many young guys in the rotation,especially before Westbrook returns.

Bullpen,ugh
Raphael Perez was the only one that had a halfway decent season
Jensen Lewis,once in the closer role,he pitched very well.Probably not our closer of the future,we'll hopefully bring in a FA,but he's effective as a closer if he's needed though.I expect we'll have Perez and J Lewis working in the 7th and 8th.
Kobayashi will hpoefully be done "adjusting" to American baseball and can have a better year.He's got at least another year with us.
I think everyone else is expendable.Even bentancourt.He had an aweful year after having a great one,who knows what he'll do next season.I'm sure we'll have a guy or 2 from our system in there,a few looked decent late this season,and a FA or 2.Mastny has a spot too.


Guys that we absolutely need to get rid of,either by trade or just cutting:
Marte!!!!!
Garko, I really like RG,but he had a tough year and is probably the odd man out with Victor playing at 1st more and most likely LaPorta coming up.He's real close.Laporta will probably play outfild some,just so he can be an everyday player.I think Garko can be a really good hitter,but we already have a DH that can't play the field.
Dellucci, just because.

Guys that have to really fight to stay with us in the majors,could earn a reserve role or in the bullpen ,could be used in trades or in the minors,or just cut:

Peralta, if he can't play 3rd,he shouldn't be on our roster.I like what he does with the stick,but with Cabrera being as good as he is at SS,I think Peralta should only play SS on Cabreras off days,and unless he just wants to be a bench guy,he better spend some of the offseason learning the hot corner.
Sowers, was terrible this year,we've got too much talent coming up to have him in our rotation.Seriously,our BP pitcher threw better stuff.
Mujica, was streaky,he'll probably stay
Gutierrez, he's truly on the bubble,this season was put up or shut up time for him,and he shut up.He might make the team,but in a reserve roll only.


There are a lot of decisions that need to be made.The biggest of which are concerning Peralta,Garko,Barfield,Closer,3B ,at least 2 starters (1 lower rung of top tier,if that makes sense).

Also Hafner.Unfortunately,he's been in a 2 year slump. I have to wonder if only a change of scenery can bring him out of it. If Hafner can't get it together what are we going to do with him? With his contract,noone is going to trade us for him,and if we do actually have an interested trade partner,what kind of value are we going to get for him after the last 2 seasons?

quote:

I’m willing to part with Shoppach, Laporta, Peralta, and other young guns to get this thing to happen.

I don't see us getting rid of Shoppach unless someone offers us a really sweet deal.Could happen,but he's too valuable to us as another poster stated.

With Laporta being the main piece of the CC trade for us,we're not going to trade him before even giving him a shot.And to have his right handed power bat in our lineup would be a knockout punch.Most believe he's got more potential to translate his game to majors more than anyone they've seen.This guy was hitting the cover off the ball in the olympics,until they tried to take his head off.He's the real deal,more than likely.

quote:

get fransico rodriguez , second choice eric gagne, third chioce kerry wood(could even be a setup man)( I know he has an injury history. but limiting his pitch count dramticaly should keep him healthier

Rodriguez,too expensive
Wood,depending on what he was asking,a possiblity
Gagne,I really hope not.He was good a few years back,but he's never been the same after having elbow problems.The only way I would be behind getting Gagne is if it were a minor league deal.I wouldn't put good coin on the table for him or put him in the closer role.

There are a few guys in their prime that we've got a good shot at getting if we're willing to open the checkbook.Fuentes,and I think there's a guy in Arizona.Noone washed up.When we get a closer we need to get someone that we think can be effective for at least 5 seasons.No more stop gaps,we need stability at closer.Your whole bullpen is more consistent when you've got a reliable closer.

1st base options
garko, martienez, laporta, FA( mark teixeira)

second base
caberra, barfield,trade( brian roberts)

ss
caberra, peralta

third base
peralta, martinez, hodges,FA( hank blaylock), trade attkins

catcher
shoppach, martinez backup

lf
fransisco,choo,fa( pat burrell, carl crawford, adam dunn, manny)

cf
sizemore

rf
guet, fransisco,choo, FA(bobby abreu,vlad guerrero)

sP
1 lee
2 carmona
3 a.j. burnett,matt clement,mark mulder,ben sheets
4 sowers,kenny rogers,barlolo colon,freddy garcia,derek lowe, greg maddux.

5 laffey, johnson,

rp
perez ,lewis, betencort, kobaybshi,burllington,adam miller, jon lieber.

closer
fransisco rodriguez, eric gagne,jason isringhausen

I would say the best trade would be barfield,dellucci(more likely gutierez) and pitching prospect, for brian roberts.

i would trade carmona amd vic for jakepeavey. Wright in 37 wins at the top of rotation then sign byrd 50 wins lewis and westbrook