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Owner Randy Lerner's e-mail response to Browns fans' plan to protest Nov. 16

Published on Thursday, Oct 29, 2009



Browns owner Randy Lerner's comments (via e-mail) on the planned protest before the Nov. 16 home game against the Baltimore Ravens:

''On the grounds of frustration and irritation with performance, then that's the medicine I [we] are going to take, and I accept that. The goal this year was to rebuild the culture at the Browns. We felt at the end of last year that we lacked any overall philosophy, approach or direction regarding recruiting, drafting, coaching, preparation or training. As a result, each season was feeling like starting over and 4-12 following 10-6 felt painfully not all that surprising.

''It's been way too long since the Browns have had anything to feel good about or invest in, and it's clear that the doubt and negativity are taking on a life of their own.

''What I can say is that we, and I, have remained open to new and fresh ideas and thinking and people with passion for the Browns and football experience getting involved and with hope and luck and support, making a difference. We won't become entrenched or stubborn and despite my allergy to be more conspicuous, I do remain eager to seek help and guidance from any and all corners.''



Browns owner Randy Lerner's comments (via e-mail) on the planned protest before the Nov. 16 home game against the Baltimore Ravens:

''On the grounds of frustration and irritation with performance, then that's the medicine I [we] are going to take, and I accept that. The goal this year was to rebuild the culture at the Browns. We felt at the end of last year that we lacked any overall philosophy, approach or direction regarding recruiting, drafting, coaching, preparation or training. As a result, each season was feeling like starting over and 4-12 following 10-6 felt painfully not all that surprising.


Fans organizing a Brown-out

''It's been way too long since the Browns have had anything to feel good about or invest in, and it's clear that the doubt and negativity are taking on a life of their own.

''What I can say is that we, and I, have remained open to new and fresh ideas and thinking and people with passion for the Browns and football experience getting involved and with hope and luck and support, making a difference. We won't become entrenched or stubborn and despite my allergy to be more conspicuous, I do remain eager to seek help and guidance from any and all corners.''


I thought this was a good read to show Mr. Lerner's side as well. And is in response to the following story:

Fans organizing a Brown-out

By Marla Ridenour
Beacon Journal sports writer

POSTED: 08:00 p.m. EDT, Oct 28, 2009

They jammed NFL fax machines and took fans' signatures to the league meetings when owner Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore after the 1995 season.

Now wondering whether all that passion and pain were worth it, two longtime Browns season-ticket holders have decided it's time to protest again.

Mike Randall of Massillon and Tony Schafer of Sandusky, aka ''Dawg Pound Mike'' and ''Mobile Dawg,'' want the team they've worshipped for a lifetime to kick off on Monday Night Football on Nov. 16 against the Baltimore Ravens in an empty stadium.

Not empty for the entire game — just at kickoff, to voice their displeasure over the state of a team that offers them no hope. The Browns are 1-6 and have lost 12 of their past 13 games.

The two men hope to delay at least half the crowd from sitting down before the 8:30 p.m. start.

''I'm a huge fan and I love the organization, but something needs to be done,'' Randall said. ''We have to make a statement. It's nothing negative, just letting the organization know we support the team, but we do not support what's going on right now. There's no general manager, no public relations, nobody letting the fans know they feel our pain. Someone needs to step up and say, 'We're going to fix this.' Fans, it's time we made a stand.

''I'm not saying boycott or wear paper bags. We'll have people around the gates to let people know. Go to the concourse, go to the restroom, just don't go to your seat.''

Schafer said when he and Randall came up with the idea, he suggested the Dec. 6 home game against the San Diego Chargers, but Randall liked the Ravens game better.

''What better way than on Monday Night Football, a national audience and against the Baltimore Ravens, who we lost the team to?'' Randall asked.

Both Randall, 39, who works in sports marketing, and Schafer, 58, a general contractor, said their moment of truth came Sunday as they left Cleveland Browns Stadium after a 31-3 loss to the Green Bay Packers.

''Walking out of the stadium, so many fans don't really give a damn. Somebody said, 'We should have been out fishing instead of watching this crap,' '' Schafer said. ''We want someone to tell us where the team is going, what they're going to do. The way it's going, we could lose this team again.

''For a couple of days [in 1995] I faxed all the owners, broke the machines. I went to the NFL meetings in Atlanta with signatures. It's like all the effort the fans put in, it all went for naught. For me, it almost seems like the Browns haven't been back yet. I wear something brown and orange every day, a hat or shirt. I'm supporting the old Browns, the old tradition.''

Randall used to be one of two men who dressed as ''Charlie's Fryes'' when the former University of Akron quarterback played for the Browns. He and Schafer both have met Browns owner Randy Lerner and do not question the camera-shy executive's commitment to the team purchased by his late father Al in September 1998. The elder Lerner died in 2002.

''I've talked to Randy; Randy's a good guy, he wants to win bad,'' Schafer said. ''But if that was my company performing like that, I'd be a mean, nasty S.O.B.''

Browns coach Eric Mangini addressed the fans' frustrations Monday but probably lacked the passion that Randall and Schafer were seeking.

''I don't think anybody is pleased with where we are right now,'' Mangini said. ''We are going to work at it as diligently and as deliberately as we possibly can. The mistakes are going to be analyzed. We're going to put a plan in place to fix them. There is a commitment to that. There is no sense of, 'Things are OK.' It's a sense of, 'We need to do things better.' And it has to be consistently that approach, and it will be. It always will be.''

Randall and Schafer lament the loss of a generation of fans. Schafer has six tickets in the upper level of the Dawg Pound and is taking some of his five grandchildren to the games, just as he did with his sons, now 32 and 33, and as his father did with him.

''My grandkids used to dress up in Browns garb for every game and watch on TV. It's hard to get them motivated to do that,'' Schafer said. ''Three of them went Sunday and one of them said, 'Grandpa, when are we going to win?' ''

Marla Ridenour can be reached at mridenour@thebeaconjournal.com. Read her Browns blog at http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/browns/. Follow the Browns on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/ABJ_Browns.

Browns defensive line coach Bryan Cox on the sidelines after Green Bay scored to made the score 21-3 at Cleveland Browns Stadium on Sunday, Oct. 25, 2009, in Cleveland, Ohio. The Packers won the game 31-3. (Phil Masturzo/Akron Beacon Journal)
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Owner Randy Lerner's e-mail response to Browns fans' plan to protest Nov. 16

They jammed NFL fax machines and took fans' signatures to the league meetings when owner Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore after the 1995 season.

Now wondering whether all that passion and pain were worth it, two longtime Browns season-ticket holders have decided it's time to protest again.

Mike Randall of Massillon and Tony Schafer of Sandusky, aka ''Dawg Pound Mike'' and ''Mobile Dawg,'' want the team they've worshipped for a lifetime to kick off on Monday Night Football on Nov. 16 against the Baltimore Ravens in an empty stadium.

Not empty for the entire game — just at kickoff, to voice their displeasure over the state of a team that offers them no hope. The Browns are 1-6 and have lost 12 of their past 13 games.

The two men hope to delay at least half the crowd from sitting down before the 8:30 p.m. start.

''I'm a huge fan and I love the organization, but something needs to be done,'' Randall said. ''We have to make a statement. It's nothing negative, just letting the organization know we support the team, but we do not support what's going on right now. There's no general manager, no public relations, nobody letting the fans know they feel our pain. Someone needs to step up and say, 'We're going to fix this.' Fans, it's time we made a stand.

''I'm not saying boycott or wear paper bags. We'll have people around the gates to let people know. Go to the concourse, go to the restroom, just don't go to your seat.''

Schafer said when he and Randall came up with the idea, he suggested the Dec. 6 home game against the San Diego Chargers, but Randall liked the Ravens game better.

''What better way than on Monday Night Football, a national audience and against the Baltimore Ravens, who we lost the team to?'' Randall asked.

Both Randall, 39, who works in sports marketing, and Schafer, 58, a general contractor, said their moment of truth came Sunday as they left Cleveland Browns Stadium after a 31-3 loss to the Green Bay Packers.

''Walking out of the stadium, so many fans don't really give a damn. Somebody said, 'We should have been out fishing instead of watching this crap,' '' Schafer said. ''We want someone to tell us where the team is going, what they're going to do. The way it's going, we could lose this team again.

''For a couple of days [in 1995] I faxed all the owners, broke the machines. I went to the NFL meetings in Atlanta with signatures. It's like all the effort the fans put in, it all went for naught. For me, it almost seems like the Browns haven't been back yet. I wear something brown and orange every day, a hat or shirt. I'm supporting the old Browns, the old tradition.''

Randall used to be one of two men who dressed as ''Charlie's Fryes'' when the former University of Akron quarterback played for the Browns. He and Schafer both have met Browns owner Randy Lerner and do not question the camera-shy executive's commitment to the team purchased by his late father Al in September 1998. The elder Lerner died in 2002.

''I've talked to Randy; Randy's a good guy, he wants to win bad,'' Schafer said. ''But if that was my company performing like that, I'd be a mean, nasty S.O.B.''

Browns coach Eric Mangini addressed the fans' frustrations Monday but probably lacked the passion that Randall and Schafer were seeking.

''I don't think anybody is pleased with where we are right now,'' Mangini said. ''We are going to work at it as diligently and as deliberately as we possibly can. The mistakes are going to be analyzed. We're going to put a plan in place to fix them. There is a commitment to that. There is no sense of, 'Things are OK.' It's a sense of, 'We need to do things better.' And it has to be consistently that approach, and it will be. It always will be.''

Randall and Schafer lament the loss of a generation of fans. Schafer has six tickets in the upper level of the Dawg Pound and is taking some of his five grandchildren to the games, just as he did with his sons, now 32 and 33, and as his father did with him.

''My grandkids used to dress up in Browns garb for every game and watch on TV. It's hard to get them motivated to do that,'' Schafer said. ''Three of them went Sunday and one of them said, 'Grandpa, when are we going to win?' ''

Thanks for the read. It just goes to show once the fans begin affecting his wallet, Lerner will start showing some concern publicly. The article makes it sound like he is very lost and is looking for ANYONE to help. He needs a GOOD ADVISOR because his decisions so far have been terrible.

These 2 guys are exactly what is wrong with this team and society in general.

Cry me an river! get over it!

Do you think the players and coaches are happy about how this is going?? I 100% know they are not happy in the slightest! They expected to be winning just like we wanted them to win!

Not showing up for a kick off is not going to make them want to play harder! I like the sentiment and passion but this is not the way to show it IMO

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Referee8,

First i heard of the "Brown Out" was this morning on espn.com. It's hard keeping up with whats really going on with the fans not being able to tailgate every weekend down at the bus. Definitely think it's a good idea though, something has to be done. Can't believe it's come to this . . .

They encourage half the fans from sitting down during kick-off?

I don't think this will be an issue. I'm there every week and I don't think half the fans are in their seats by kick-off anyway.

I don't know you guys, I feel like this Brown-out is a fine idea. Yes, the players and coaches are probably disappointed at losing but perhaps this will get some kind of change to happen in terms of front office and coaching staff. I will give Mangini another year...but I don't know if I am going to give Daboll another year as our offensive coordinator...I mean geez the offense is abysmal...it is just ugly to watch! On another point, I feel the team has gotten better in terms of the amount of penalties (so there you go guys...a positive thing to build on!).....

Gabedawg your totally in the wrong on that comment. These two men helped in the comeback of my Browns team. Idk how passionate you are about this organization, but you can most certainly leave if your going to come down on this article the way you just did. Everyone has a right to be upset at this point in time until the matter is corrected. The Steelers seem to have a pretty damn good organization if they can spot talent the way they do. I think we need to adopt there system of selecting players. They have a group discussion on which players to keep and what is needed. Our organization just seems to have one or two people selecting talent and look were its gotten us. How many number 1 draft busts have we had? Far to many. We need a better and efficient system quickly.

Randall aka Dawgpound Mike is the same guy who welcomed Chad Johnson into the Dawgpound with hugs and kisses. And were supossed to listen to this loser.

quote:

Originally posted by Warreng686:
Gabedawg your totally in the wrong on that comment. These two men helped in the comeback of my Browns team. Idk how passionate you are about this organization, but you can most certainly leave if your going to come down on this article the way you just did. Everyone has a right to be upset at this point in time until the matter is corrected. The Steelers seem to have a pretty damn good organization if they can spot talent the way they do. I think we need to adopt there system of selecting players. They have a group discussion on which players to keep and what is needed. Our organization just seems to have one or two people selecting talent and look were its gotten us. How many number 1 draft busts have we had? Far to many. We need a better and efficient system quickly.

Forgetaboutgabe..he's addicted to ManKok bowl-o-cherry koolaid

It's about time the fans start demanding a return on investment, instead of happly excepting poor hiring practices and failure, year after year.

quote:

Originally posted by Warreng686:
Gabedawg your totally in the wrong on that comment. These two men helped in the comeback of my Browns team. Idk how passionate you are about this organization, but you can most certainly leave if your going to come down on this article the way you just did. Everyone has a right to be upset at this point in time until the matter is corrected. The Steelers seem to have a pretty damn good organization if they can spot talent the way they do. I think we need to adopt there system of selecting players. They have a group discussion on which players to keep and what is needed. Our organization just seems to have one or two people selecting talent and look were its gotten us. How many number 1 draft busts have we had? Far to many. We need a better and efficient system quickly.

Do you really think these 2 guys helped in bringing this team back? please?? grow up!

Lerner and Modoofus were friends- the Browns coming back to Cleveland was a given before they moved!

Complaining and having Brown outs is not a way to support a team IMO- because it is not your opinion I am not a fan? ok..

No one ever answers my ?'s

Do you really believe that the FO, HC and Team does not want to win?? If you believe that than IMO YOU are the one that should leave!!

If YOU believe they are doing everything they can to win (for a very long time) than you are in agreement with me and this team is being re-built. THEY were not going to the playoffs this year- I wanted them to but they were not going to!

Let me ask you guys this? What does a BROWN out prove?? sell me on it- convince me it is what is best for the future of our beloved team?

To show people YOU are mad woooo I am sure the FO, HC, Owner, Team will be really upset..

Ill be there with 3 other guests for Monday Night. We will not be in our seats for kick off and we will support the Browns Out. Something must be done and the fans have to do it. When we do get into our seats we will be wearing Brown Paper Bags.

Mangini HAS TO GO!

quote:

Originally posted by Brady10z:
Ill be there with 3 other guests for Monday Night. We will not be in our seats for kick off and we will support the Browns Out. Something must be done and the fans have to do it. When we do get into our seats we will be wearing Brown Paper Bags.

Mangini HAS TO GO!

You sound like a REAL fan- giving a HC a whole 7 games!

I am ok with the brown out but i am totally against this paperbag wearing. I think it makes us look bad as fans. A true fan supports his team and no matter how poorly they are playing is not ashamed to admit that they are fans. The paperbag ritual basically says I am too embarrassed to let anyone know who I am. A real fan stands up and says: "I am a Browns fan! Yes we may suck but I love them win or lose."

gabe dawg.. aka.. eric mangini??

look dude, you can't blame the fans for being upset, protesting or anything else.. this team hasn't really come back since they were moved..but people (us included) have still given financial and emotional support.

Its like anything, if your company makes a crappy product, should people still buy it cuz thats what they used to buy??
You would say thats nonsense.. but the organizations in the league are just the same.. a product. Instead of not buying it anymore, the fans are just pleading for a better, competetive product.. as shareholders (in a round-about way), thats their right.
If you wanna see a few W's any time soon (or at very least some improvement), I think you should get on board.

I like the sentiment but what big message does this send? "DARN YOU LERNER! WE'RE SO MAD WE'RE GOING TO WAIT A WHOLE A MINUTE TO SIT DOWN, SO THERE." What are we, 11 years old?

What they should do is if the Browns are putting up another stinker and are down 21+ points at half time, then everybody leave. Let him deal with that embarrassment.

Also, I really hope these guys setup around the stadium don't turn out to be hired goons who try to intimidate everyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by Brady10z:

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by Brady10z:
Ill be there with 3 other guests for Monday Night. We will not be in our seats for kick off and we will support the Browns Out. Something must be done and the fans have to do it. When we do get into our seats we will be wearing Brown Paper Bags.

Mangini HAS TO GO!

You sound like a REAL fan- giving a HC a whole 7 games!

You sound like a Steelers fan or a Mangini relative!

Intelligent as always

Tell me what he has done wrong that everyone did not ask for last year

Discipline- check
Got rid of non-team players- check (and got something for them)
7-0- did you think we were going to be undefeated- I saw 6 victories and I still do.

Fans like you will ruin this franchise! You think you are owed something because you wear a jersey..

quote:

Originally posted by Jester48:
I am ok with the brown out but i am totally against this paperbag wearing. I think it makes us look bad as fans. A true fan supports his team and no matter how poorly they are playing is not ashamed to admit that they are fans. The paperbag ritual basically says I am too embarrassed to let anyone know who I am. A real fan stands up and says: "I am a Browns fan! Yes we may suck but I love them win or lose."

good post

Bags are useless and most people that wear them they double as there luggage

And a very lame e-mail reply from Lerner. 'Open to advice from all comers'..LMAO What a crock!

I hope no fan is in their seats at kickoff. And if our Baltimore visiter's join us then all the better to send a message.

Enjoy the embarrasment.

quote:

Originally posted by HammerDawg:
gabe dawg.. aka.. eric mangini??

look dude, you can't blame the fans for being upset, protesting or anything else.. this team hasn't really come back since they were moved..but people (us included) have still given financial and emotional support.

Its like anything, if your company makes a crappy product, should people still buy it cuz thats what they used to buy??
You would say thats nonsense.. but the organizations in the league are just the same.. a product. Instead of not buying it anymore, the fans are just pleading for a better, competetive product.. as shareholders (in a round-about way), thats their right.
If you wanna see a few W's any time soon (or at very least some improvement), I think you should get on board.

I am blaming the fans for blaming a HC/FO who has had 7 games= insane!!

No one is telling you to buy any product- stay home, hell give me your tickets, I am in FL and would love to go to the game! I grew up in Akron in the 70's and I know bad Browns football and great Browns football! How many years did Sam R get?? How about Paul B- the biggest disciplinarian out there.

Calling me EM shows how mature you are and how jumping on a band wagon is soooo easy.

Everyone wants a BETTER product- do you think I am happy about the way this team is playing? Hell NO!

Do you think the FO, HC and Players are happy?? they have been asked and say HEll NO

The Owner sure as hell aint happy either.

It does not mean they are not going to make it better

quote:

''My grandkids used to dress up in Browns garb for every game and watch on TV. It's hard to get them motivated to do that,'' Schafer said. ''Three of them went Sunday and one of them said, 'Grandpa, when are we going to win?' ''

Agreed 100%. I am 37 years old, I remember the Kardiac Kids and I also remember Bernie and his gang winning divisions and going to the playoffs. I was in high school during Bernie's reign. There were alot of Brown's fans in my class back then and we got excited and got together for games every Sunday. My daughter dates a senior in high school whom is a football player and I was talking to him the other day and he is not a Brown's fan at all. He doesn't know anybody besides me that is. My nephew also plays and loves football but he doesn't watch the Browns unless I go over there with my Dad and brothers to watch a game. Think about it, we haven't been relevant for 15+ years. Kids in high school right now were toddlers when we were good, they don't remember. The younger kids only remember Tim Couch and so on. If they don't turn things around soon they are gonna miss out on at least one entire generation of being Browns fans.

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by Brady10z:

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by Brady10z:
Ill be there with 3 other guests for Monday Night. We will not be in our seats for kick off and we will support the Browns Out. Something must be done and the fans have to do it. When we do get into our seats we will be wearing Brown Paper Bags.

Mangini HAS TO GO!

You sound like a REAL fan- giving a HC a whole 7 games!

You sound like a Steelers fan or a Mangini relative!

Intelligent as always

Tell me what he has done wrong that everyone did not ask for last year

Discipline- check
Got rid of non-team players- check (and got something for them)
7-0- did you think we were going to be undefeated- I saw 6 victories and I still do.

Fans like you will ruin this franchise! You think you are owed something because you wear a jersey..

I believe its quite the opposite. The franchise (if you can still call it one) is ruined when fans blindly support (like yourself apparently) whatever crap is out there coaching, managing and playing.
Those I blame the least are the players, I don't doubt that they're trying to win. But they too deserve better from the people above them in the org. See Josh Cribbs.

Shakespeare said it best (King Lear) "Nothing will come of nothing".. you do nothing, you'll get nothing in return.

quote:

Originally posted by HammerDawg:

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by Brady10z:

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brady10z:
Ill be there with 3 other guests for Monday Night. We will not be in our seats for kick off and we will support the Browns Out. Something must be done and the fans have to do it. When we do get into our seats we will be wearing Brown Paper Bags.

Mangini HAS TO GO!

You sound like a REAL fan- giving a HC a whole 7 games!

You sound like a Steelers fan or a Mangini relative!

Intelligent as always

Tell me what he has done wrong that everyone did not ask for last year

Discipline- check
Got rid of non-team players- check (and got something for them)
7-0- did you think we were going to be undefeated- I saw 6 victories and I still do.

Fans like you will ruin this franchise! You think you are owed something because you wear a jersey..

I believe its quite the opposite. The franchise (if you can still call it one) is ruined when fans blindly support (like yourself apparently) whatever crap is out there coaching, managing and playing.
Those I blame the least are the players, I don't doubt that they're trying to win. But they too deserve better from the people above them in the org. See Josh Cribbs.

So you think the players are trying to win- I AGREE with you.

So, what you must be saying is that the coaches are purposely coaching them to lose?

Or that they are short on talent

I will go with the latter= it takes TIME to build a team that was this messed up

YOU NEED TO GO OVER TO Phil Savages house and wear a paper bag!

quote:

I am blaming the fans for blaming a HC/FO who has had 7 games= insane!!

No one is telling you to buy any product- stay home, hell give me your tickets, I am in FL and would love to go to the game! I grew up in Akron in the 70's and I know bad Browns football and great Browns football! How many years did Sam R get?? How about Paul B- the biggest disciplinarian out there.

Calling me EM shows how mature you are and how jumping on a band wagon is soooo easy.

Everyone wants a BETTER product- do you think I am happy about the way this team is playing? Hell NO!

Do you think the FO, HC and Players are happy?? they have been asked and say HEll NO

The Owner sure as hell aint happy either.

It does not mean they are not going to make it better

OK, so you're not EM.. never really thought that, just sayin that EM would likely have a simlar reply.

The reason ppl are goin nutz after only 7 games is because every single year we have to this same garbage.. give the new staff "some time" to get it together.. but it hasn't happened yet. Its been almost 10 years like this.

The line has to be drawn sooner or later.. and now is the time I guess.. call it the breaking point of the fans.

My question is, what will you say after 16 or 32 games and we're still losing consistently.. The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour..
The org has done nothing SUCCESSFULLY to change the past behavior.

quote:

Originally posted by HammerDawg:

quote:

I am blaming the fans for blaming a HC/FO who has had 7 games= insane!!

No one is telling you to buy any product- stay home, hell give me your tickets, I am in FL and would love to go to the game! I grew up in Akron in the 70's and I know bad Browns football and great Browns football! How many years did Sam R get?? How about Paul B- the biggest disciplinarian out there.

Calling me EM shows how mature you are and how jumping on a band wagon is soooo easy.

Everyone wants a BETTER product- do you think I am happy about the way this team is playing? Hell NO!

Do you think the FO, HC and Players are happy?? they have been asked and say HEll NO

The Owner sure as hell aint happy either.

It does not mean they are not going to make it better

OK, so you're not EM.. never really thought that, just sayin that EM would likely have a simlar reply.

The reason ppl are goin nutz after only 7 games is because every single year we have to this same garbage.. give the new staff "some time" to get it together.. but it hasn't happened yet. Its been almost 10 years like this.

The line has to be drawn sooner or later.. and now is the time I guess.. call it the breaking point of the fans.

My question is, what will you say after 16 or 32 games and we're still losing consistently.. The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour..
The org has done nothing SUCCESSFULLY to change the past behavior.

Why compare years- He has nothing to do with past years? It makes no sense! He has had 7 games is the reality! He has not had a chance to build a team!

If you think the FO, HC and players do not want to win then by all means protest- IMO they want to win!

Success= winning a Super Bowl, right?

WE have never had success then- not just the last ten years!

I wonder if the Texans are acting like this- you know the other expansion team.....oh wait...they have had a loser HC for what? 4-5 years now and you know what??? wait for it

IT IS PAYING OFF!!! Mario Williams was a terrible pick- remember?

quote:

Why compare years- He has nothing to do with past years? It makes no sense! He has had 7 games is the reality! He has not had a chance to build a team!

If you think the FO, HC and players do not want to win then by all means protest- IMO they want to win!

Success= winning a Super Bowl, right?

WE have never had success then- not just the last ten years!

I wonder if the Texans are acting like this- you know the other expansion team.....oh wait...they have had a loser HC for what? 4-5 years now and you know what??? wait for it

IT IS PAYING OFF!!! Mario Williams was a terrible pick- remember?

Whoa whoa.. I never said success = SB. At this point I'd settle for competitive losses and 5 or 6 W's... which could still happen, but seems highly unlikely.

I'm not comparing mangini to past years. I am highlighting the upper management's hiring mistakes since the return.. and I really don't have any reason thus far to believe mangini is any different. No fault of mangini's alone.. just like it wasn't a fault of crennels alone..

The common denominator has been the Lerner's.. and/or whoever is advising them on who to hire. It just hasn't been working.. and asking for more time AGAIN, without defining how much time, is just hard to stomach.

I don't know what they saw in the past coaches and managers they hired, and I hope they didn't see the same inept qualities in mangini/kokinis.
But up to now... do I have a legit REASON to believe any different?.. I think not.

The words "more time" are becoming as notorious and aggrevating as "the fumble" around browns town.

quote:

Do you think the players and coaches are happy about how this is going?? I 100% know they are not happy in the slightest! They expected to be winning just like we wanted them to win!

Actually ... I believe the players can get over it a LOT quicker than the fans can. They are, after all, getting paid MILLIONS to SUCK.

Same with the coaches and the owner too.

I am 61 years old and have followed the Browns since I was 6-7 years old.

My opinion of this whole deal is it is a bunch of whiners proposing this. Must be a sign of the times with all the whiners we have in society in general.

We as Browns fans stood up to demonstrate how we wanted to keep our team. Now we have have a bunch of victims who want to demonstrate our displeasure?? What a bunch of wimps some of our fan base has become.

Sounds like a bunch of band wagoners to me...."if we don't win I am going to protest"...LOL

I have season tickets and come up from Tennessee. So far I have been to see the games against Minn, Cincy, and Green Bay.

I still plan trips up for the games against SD and Jacksonville...sorry, gave up the Mon. Night game a month or so ago...and am glad I did as it would be sickening to see a bunch of band wagon fans standing in the concourse or waiting to enter.

My advice to those of you who plan to do this....just don't go.

It will make the place smell better.

For their next temper tantrum they can lay on the ground kicking and screaming while threatening to hold their breath till they turn blue at half time

If Josh Cribbs takes the opening kickoff to the house in an empty stadium, it will be the fans that will look like the southside of a northbound mule.

''The goal this year was to rebuild the culture at the Browns. We felt at the end of last year that we lacked any overall philosophy, approach or direction regarding recruiting, drafting, coaching, preparation or training. As a result, each season was feeling like starting over and 4-12 following 10-6 felt painfully not all that surprising."

IT FEELS LIKE YOU'RE ALWAYS STARTING OVER BECAUSE YOU ARE.
The Browns were 4-12 for two primary reasons:
1. Injuries / Depth
2. Tougher schedule
--Summary: Savage and Crennel did a good job of bringing in good talent...Cribbs, Rogers, Thomas, Lewis, Steinbach, Bentley (before the injury), Jurevicious, Chudzinsky, Edwards, Anderson, Wimbley, Harrison...
Most of these players were healthy for much of the 10-6 year, (which was actually an 11-5 year because we beat Arizona). On the other hand, most of the aforementioned players were not so fortunate last year. Anderson entered the year suffering from a concussion, Winslow and Jurevicious had staff just about all year it seemed. Bentley never took a snap. Tucker spent a lot of time hurt. Brodney Pool missed time with a concussion of his own. Quinn broke a finger on his throwing hand...and on...and on...and on. Now, don't get me wrong, this IS football and injuries are a part of the game, but to combat injuries, and adversity for that matter you need a couple of things: depth, continuity, and poise. You need guys that have been in that position before and know how to handle themselves; old vets that know the system and can step in without missing a beat and take the reins. We were trying to get to that point but that usually takes a couple of years...to get your core / nucleus set...THEN start backfilling positions with talent. Unfortunately coaches and Gms in Cleveland aren't given the time that it takes to get to that point. Bill Cowher cited that as one of the reasons he wasn't interested in coming to Cleveland. The fans and the leadership expect you to step in and win right away, and NO ONE that goes into Cleveland is given the time needed to build a PROGRAM...a FRANCHISE...a New England...a Pittsburgh...a Baltimore (nice job Ozzie). That's why Tuna left Dallas; as soon as you start to put something together Jerry Jones has to stick his fingers in it. That's why Gibbs left Washington. Here, take Butch Davis for example. The guy comes in and takes a team in shambles to the playoffs. They're one dropped Northcutt pass away from beating the Steelers with a backup quarterback in the playoffs and the next thing you know...gone and all the Brown's fans can talk about is how bad the starting quarterback was...a quarterback who incidentally took more hits behind that poor offensive line than any other quarterback in the NFL except for David Carr and STILL went .500 and practically took the team to the playoffs on a broken leg. A quarterback that won games on last second throws and fourth quarter comebacks. What kind of thanks does he get...he gets booed off of his own field. And when the team falls apart, the vultures just swoop in and pick the bones: Bruce Arians and Big Ben just hung 400 on us, Belicheat - multiple super bowls in New England, Davis - rebuilding North Carolina. I'd pay head coach money to have Chudzinski back calling plays...

Bottom line: If you want it to stop feeling like you're starting over, stop starting over.
Consider this scenario

1. Savage and Crennel stay in Cleveland.
Cleveland unable to convince Winslow to stay is forced to trade him...let's say they get a two. They send that two with Cribbs to Denver for Brandon Marshall. With the one in this year's draft they take Crabtree to go with Edwards and Marshall (everyone knows Edwards is a better two wr than a one...that's why NY brought him over and that's why he made the pb two years ago; JJ and Winslow were the guys with the good hands). I think with Chud as the OC we could find a way to score points with that group. They re sign Andra Davis and Sean Jones. Now you have rounds 2-7 to bolster the line and secondary...which you probably could have already addressed in free agency provided you weren't still trying to get to know everyone. Now, think about if somehow...someway...Winslow stays!! You have Winslow, Heiden, Crabtree, Edwards, AND Brandon Marshall...with Lewis and Harrison...and if you're really that worried about the offensive line or the center position in particular, then trade one of those quarterbacks and bring O linemen. Let one of those guys take over the team and presto...no quarterback controversy either. That's what GOOD coaches do. Bill Walsh traded JOE MONTANA for Pete's sake. Why? QB controversy is cancer. Make a decision; let one guy go start in the NFC and move on? Who knows what their value is now. Now believe me Browns fans, I can hear you all griping about the "diva" personalities...but I guarantee you all one thing you wouldn't be griping about and that's being losers.

Now, with that being said...please give these new guys a chance to implement their vision. Understand that the way they are trying to build this team will take longer than others. Your patience will be tested, but if you want to stop feeling like you're starting over, you have to stop starting over.

Don't understand how that's a real protest? You buy tickets so they have their money already but, you aren't going to sit down Yeah, that will show them. "I just spent $200 on tickets and food but, i won't sit down for the first 5 minutes" LMAO. A real protest is not buying tickets at all.
Also, he's protesting but, he admits he likes Lerner and admits Mangini needs time so, again what exactly is he protesting? I think whoever follows his lead has about as much sense as he does which is very little if any.

It's a wonder this topic has not been deleted

This is the wrong game to be doing this protest.

Remember last year fellas, we went 1-3 into the Bye Week, and then welcomed in the Super Bowl champions to our stadium for MNF??? the atmosphere was electric and the crowd was the loudest its been at Cleveland Browns stadium since the team came back.

after that game, the team still fell flat and finished 4-12, but here MNF crew is coming to our stadium again this year, because they enjoyed the atmosphere.

Please do not do this at this game. Be in your seats on time! and cheer loud for our team.

We will be coming off a BYE WEEK and i feel that Mangini , the assistants and the players will treat this game as a 'FRESH START' to the 2nd season. Is it too late to turn it around and make it into the playoffs this year, Yeah.. but its not too late to start the 2nd half of the season on a high note, play tough football in this game, pull off an upset and it could lead to a suprising 2nd half finish for our team.

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by Warreng686:
Gabedawg your totally in the wrong on that comment. These two men helped in the comeback of my Browns team. Idk how passionate you are about this organization, but you can most certainly leave if your going to come down on this article the way you just did. Everyone has a right to be upset at this point in time until the matter is corrected. The Steelers seem to have a pretty damn good organization if they can spot talent the way they do. I think we need to adopt there system of selecting players. They have a group discussion on which players to keep and what is needed. Our organization just seems to have one or two people selecting talent and look were its gotten us. How many number 1 draft busts have we had? Far to many. We need a better and efficient system quickly.

Do you really think these 2 guys helped in bringing this team back? please?? grow up!

Lerner and Modoofus were friends- the Browns coming back to Cleveland was a given before they moved!

Complaining and having Brown outs is not a way to support a team IMO- because it is not your opinion I am not a fan? ok..

No one ever answers my ?'s

Do you really believe that the FO, HC and Team does not want to win?? If you believe that than IMO YOU are the one that should leave!!

If YOU believe they are doing everything they can to win (for a very long time) than you are in agreement with me and this team is being re-built. THEY were not going to the playoffs this year- I wanted them to but they were not going to!

Let me ask you guys this? What does a BROWN out prove?? sell me on it- convince me it is what is best for the future of our beloved team?

To show people YOU are mad woooo I am sure the FO, HC, Owner, Team will be really upset..

For 10 year we have sat back and excepted each new regime with open arms. Just to have them fail in a couple of years. We have allowed, with blind loyalty, one regime after another and I for one am sick of it. I don't think anyone has said that they are not trying to win. I am sure nobody said that this team is not rebuilding. What I am saying is enough is enough. Get your crap together and put a winner on the field, enough is enough.

The "Brown out"
Is it a good ideal or not? Who knows but it did get RL to respond so I would say that it is doing what they ment for it to. They wanted to get RL attention. They even said in tthe article that they have met RL and they know he wants to win. So all of your questions are null and void. Nobody is saying anything about the questions you are asking. The question that needs to be asked is WHEN WILL WE HAVE A WINNER?

quote:

My opinion of this whole deal is it is a bunch of whiners proposing this. Must be a sign of the times with all the whiners we have in society in general.

Yeah true reminds me of all the posters here that whined about the new format of this MB and left. Only now to show up here every once in while and call everyone else the whiner's and how they smell.

I say, more power to ya fans. Don't drink the koolaid that has been forced upon you anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by Ballpeen:
I am 61 years old and have followed the Browns since I was 6-7 years old.

My opinion of this whole deal is it is a bunch of whiners proposing this. Must be a sign of the times with all the whiners we have in society in general.

We as Browns fans stood up to demonstrate how we wanted to keep our team. Now we have have a bunch of victims who want to demonstrate our displeasure?? What a bunch of wimps some of our fan base has become.

Sounds like a bunch of band wagoners to me...."if we don't win I am going to protest"...LOL

I have season tickets and come up from Tennessee. So far I have been to see the games against Minn, Cincy, and Green Bay.

I still plan trips up for the games against SD and Jacksonville...sorry, gave up the Mon. Night game a month or so ago...and am glad I did as it would be sickening to see a bunch of band wagon fans standing in the concourse or waiting to enter.

My advice to those of you who plan to do this....just don't go.

It will make the place smell better.

Best POST I have seen on this board in a VERY long time!!

quote:

Originally posted by gabedawg:

quote:

Originally posted by Ballpeen:
I am 61 years old and have followed the Browns since I was 6-7 years old.

My opinion of this whole deal is it is a bunch of whiners proposing this. Must be a sign of the times with all the whiners we have in society in general.

We as Browns fans stood up to demonstrate how we wanted to keep our team. Now we have have a bunch of victims who want to demonstrate our displeasure?? What a bunch of wimps some of our fan base has become.

Sounds like a bunch of band wagoners to me...."if we don't win I am going to protest"...LOL

I have season tickets and come up from Tennessee. So far I have been to see the games against Minn, Cincy, and Green Bay.

I still plan trips up for the games against SD and Jacksonville...sorry, gave up the Mon. Night game a month or so ago...and am glad I did as it would be sickening to see a bunch of band wagon fans standing in the concourse or waiting to enter.

My advice to those of you who plan to do this....just don't go.

It will make the place smell better.

Best POST I have seen on this board in a VERY long time!!

*gulp* *gulp* Koolaid

i see no problem with the "brown out." perfect timing on MNF and vs the ravens. browns fans have voiced their displeasure before and deserve better. each and every week fans shell out big dollars for a bad product. people can say "quit buying" said product but the passion is still there for this team. it is a message to lerner IMO. not the players or HC. straight to the owner.
10 years since the return and 2 playoff appearances? multiple bad high draft choices. the whole staph infection thing. and on and on. where does it stop? lerner needs to fix it as the owner and has not done it period.
i just see nothing wrong with sending lerner a messaage on a national stage. after all he pads his pockets with our $$.

This guy is anotther self serving wanna be. All he did by this is get his name talked about and get in the press. I am sorry him and Big Dawg are both guys that care more about hearing there name than anything. Maybe he'll be the next to come out with a cereal that lasts exactly 2 minutes as well.

Dawg pound Mike- Tries to hug Ochocinco while the rest of the pound tried to throw beers at him. I will side with the beer throwers any day not the guy that just wants to make ESPN and make Browns fans look like tools.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawg Gone:

quote:

My opinion of this whole deal is it is a bunch of whiners proposing this. Must be a sign of the times with all the whiners we have in society in general.

Yeah true reminds me of all the posters here that whined about the new format of this MB and left. Only now to show up here every once in while and call everyone else the whiner's and how they smell.

I say, more power to ya fans. Don't drink the koolaid that has been forced upon you anymore.

Not quite..another option was presented and I went with it. I didn't stick around and complain like a little kid.